This is a transcript of SYS 487 – Motherhood and Hunt Club With Elizabeth Blake Thomas .
Welcome to Episode 487 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger over at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I’m interviewing writer-director Elizabeth Blake – Thomas. She comes on the show today to talk about her new action thriller – Hunt Club. Starring Mickey Rourke, Mena Suvari and Casper Van Dien. We talked through her career and how she’s gotten to the point where she’s now directing these feature films, so stay tuned for that interview.
SYS’s a six-figure screenplay contest is open for submissions, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. Our final deadline is July 31st. So, if you have a low budget screenplay, definitely consider submitting. We have a short film script category as well; 30 pages or less. So, if you have a low budget short script, by all means, submit that. We’ve got a number of industry judge producers who are looking specifically at short screenplays. If you want to submit or learn more about the contest, or check out who all of our judges are, just go to our landing page at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. If you find this episode valuable, please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes or leaving a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread word about the podcast so they’re very much appreciated. Any websites or links that I mentioned the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on. You can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcast and then just look for episode 487. If you want my free guide How to Sell a Screenplay in five weeks, you can pick that up by going to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide, it is completely free. You just put in your email address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell a screenplay in that guide. I’ll teach you how to write a professional logline and query letter, and how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material, really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. So, now let’s get into the main segment. Today, I’m interviewing writer-director Elizabeth Blake – Thomas, here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome, Elizabeth to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Well, thanks for having me.
Ashley
So, to start out, maybe tell us a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up? And how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Well, it’s always a funny one, because I used to think you could only be in the industry if you had the surname Spielberg, or you know, something like that. And so actually, for me, it is quite unique. As you can hear, I’m British, I didn’t start in the UK industry. I was a theater director over there. And it was actually my daughter, who is an actress, and I was with her on set supporting her. And we were on one of her films. And the director actually said to me, he’d heard me talking to kind of helping her. And he said, would you mind doing that to the other actors? So, I was like, okay, I can do that. Then, you know, I get in, like my mental space was I’m just here to help Isabella. So, I did a short for her, I got other people involved. I literally didn’t think anything of it until a mentor of mine said I should be a director. And I said, how do I do that. And he said, you just say you’re a director. So, that is literally how it started. And I approached a lady because it’s always about the money. I believe that stories out there, I believe that crew, there’s cast, always about the funding. And there was a lady who had a venue that have been used, and again, one of my daughter’s films. And she’d said if I ever wanted to do something with Isabella to contact her. So, I did, and she funded the first feature. And then I managed to kind of make my way within six years, I think I’ve done about 15 features. And I just don’t stop, but the quality, the variation, the subject matters, that has all grown and changed. But that’s just a natural progression. So, I literally the other day, I thought to myself, ah, I’ve now finished film school. You know, I’ve done six years. And now I feel like I know what I’m doing.
Ashley
So, when you started this journey with your daughter on set, you had a background, it sounds like in theater, so you knew how to direct actors, you knew story, script and that sort of stuff. It was more about the cinematography, camera angles, maybe lighting and stuff that you had to kind of get up to speed with directing wise.
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
A 100%. I mean, I always also when I direct or direct like I’m directing a play anyway. So, I think that’s the best way to look at things and theater seems to be the, you know, is where everything started. So, if you’ve got that as a background, I think you’re okay. And the best thing for me was because I didn’t know anything about the technical side, I would say to my DP on that first film, so can we come over here and can we do that? And he’d say; No, I’d say well, what do you mean no. So because of this is that what you can do is just put the camera up and move it. And so because a lot of people are taught certain ways, they don’t necessarily have the flexibility. And because I hadn’t been taught anything, I was like, well, you could do that if you’re done in a tree with a camera if you want to. And when I was taught, also, when my second feature, this director came and mentored me and said, you can’t break the 180. First of all, I had no idea what the 180 was. And I was like, I’m sure you can. And of course, you can. Now there are ways to do it. But until I knew that, I had no worries about it. And actually, it’s very freeing. Again, it depends if it’s TV or film, because obviously, I’m sure there are more rules when it’s like, if you’re feeling Grey’s Anatomy, this is the way we do it. You can do whatever you want.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, let’s dig into your latest film Hunt Club. You had a great cast for this Mena Suvari, Casper Van Dien and Mickey Rourke, fantastic cast, maybe you start out you can just give us a quick pitch, or logline, what is this film all about?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Okay, so I think there are two different log lines, because there may be two different audiences. If I was going for my horror audience, I would say a group of girls taken to an island prepared to die. And yet they managed to beat the bad guys, kind of thing. You know, revenge comes around. But a little bit of a different logline would also be okay, that is what happens. But the depth of it is a mother fighting for her daughter’s survival. And in that process, finds a group of women that she helps, you know, much more on the kind of mother-daughter story. So. there’s still the same horror, still the same got gore, but I think there’s a depth that one couldn’t go to as well.
Ashley
So, it looks like on IMDb, most of your project projects that you’ve directed. You’ve also written up until this one, maybe we can talk about that a little bit. How did you get involved with this screenplay? And I’m always curious, because I get writers coming to me all the time saying, well, how can I get my script in front of this director? So maybe you can talk about that a little bit. How did you just get involved with this script? How did this these writers or producers get this script in front of you and just get you involved?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Well, I’m going to actually take it back to what you just said, which is when you get writers coming up to you saying, how can I… how can I. I will be very honest; I find it very difficult working with other writers. And they’re very stuck in their ways. They don’t want to change and tweak things, they often come back. And it’s kind of it can cause layers of problems. As a director, I want to be given a script that I can say; great, now let me go for it. And again, that’s different for TV and film, I understand that there are certain writers that work within TV, and there’s a structure. But if I as the director wants to take a film on, and I look at a script, I go, I love this. But A) There might be budget constraints or B) I need to change from I’m going to shoot it somewhere else or see, you know, I want to also and I like this element of the storyline. So, I find it very difficult to go to, for other writers, because there seems to be an inflexibility. Also, to find a good story is actually hard, because I really love the development. And that’s what my daughter and I do a lot of. Now what was different with this script was because David, who was producing it wrote it is very flexible, very flexible on the fly. This needs to change. This doesn’t make sense. And actress doesn’t like this. And that’s not actually the process that I normally like to do. That last feature. I did cameras a bit, because we wrote it again, Isabella, my daughter wrote it, we’d already done all that before we’d got on set. So as long as you’ve got a writer, like on Hunt Club, who is flexible when you’re there, then that’s great.
Ashley
Gotcha. And so just walk us through that a little bit. How did you meet this producer? And how did he happen to approach you with this project?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Well, because I’ve worked with him before. I’ve worked with David Lipper a lot. So, I’ve worked with him for the last three years. So, he and I worked on a romcom together, we just did another YA thriller together. So, I’ve heard a deed for him. So, there’s a symbiosis that happens there with that relationships. And there’s a huge trust. I trust him, he trusts me, we’re able to make a project work because we both basically want the same outcome.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So, it sounds like you’ve had a relationship with him. So, you’re going into this sort of knowing the writer knowing the producer and stuff, but what were some of the things just from the story level that attracted you to this project. Were there some things in this script? I mean, this is a sort of a tried and true, maybe sub-genre sort of the you know, the hunting of humans. We’ve seen these movies before. So, what was it about this script just on the story level, creative level that really got you jazzed and wanted to direct this?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Again, I’m going to give a little bit of a preface that because you mentioned something about relationships. So, it’s really because I again, I think this is really important for people to understand. I was told, you know, it’s all well and good that I know who Spielberg is, but he doesn’t know who I am. And so, relationships are very, very important. So, if you are a writer, if you’re wanting to get your script in front of people, it is about building those relationships and starting on other projects, following other projects, maybe not writing your baby. You know, everyone always says, this is my baby, it’s not a good idea to start with your baby. And I think the way that this worked, because we were working together, and you know, the storyline, yep, you’re right, it has been done lots before. Again, as a writer, it’s finding the genre that sellable. So, we weren’t making this because it’s like, by the way, we’re going to win an Academy Award here. This is about making a film that is tried and tested with some really good quality cast that can sell. And it’s shot in an awesome location. So, when you put those elements together, you can make something work. Now if I have, I’ve got a pitch to him. I’ve got a fabulous drama, and it’s got all the cast from Lost in, it’s brilliant. It’s not marketable for him. It’s not sellable. So, it doesn’t matter. It’s not what he’s going to go for. So sometimes you need to look at what is that bigger picture that these producers want.
Ashley
So again, everything you’re saying, I think is fantastic. And I really hope people are listening to this. I always come at these things with a real practical sense. And it sounds like frankly, you do too. So how do you balance that the practical sense of just knowing that, okay, we’ve got to make a genre film here that’s going to sell, that we’re going to sell some tickets to how do you balance that with the creative and I go back to you preface everything, I want to preface it, you came, the first thing you said was it was the sort of Mother-Daughter story. So, it seems like that’s a part of it as well, but maybe you can speak to that. How do you balance the creative with sort of the practical business considerations?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
So, I’m going to tell you exactly that. I can answer that. I’m just finding my pyramid of purpose. Okay, here we go. So, okay, do you see this is a pyramid, okay, very simple pyramid purpose, okay. And what I do is I break it into categories for what I want to do. So, let’s you’re talking creative, because I agree, I’ve got a baby that I want to make that comes at the bottom of my pyramid. This next section, I fill with films that I own that I want to direct so I’ve got a couple of rom coms in there. And I’ve got a true story that I’m trying to get made. This section are the films that I’ve been asked to direct and I’ve been asked to do three or four features at the moment. Then there’s the icing on the cake at the top is my medicine with words my mind coaching my mind healing and all around it. I fill in words like fun finances, career cast contact, millions of words, but this question here, does whatever helped me do this? So, for me, that is siku. Which is my project down here. So, does being on your podcast helped me make siku, does directing Hunt Club helped me make siku? So, for me, the creative aspect isn’t necessarily that immediate, tangible, hard cash. You know, I’m going to get it made. I have had to be known. I’ve had to do six years to get to this stage. Because my project my creative baby is a $25 million film with Eddie Redmayne with all these people in, I am leading to that. But in the process, I can still be creative, I can still learn. I can be unattached to things but still get something from them still learn from that. For example, in Hunt Club, I learned how to nail stumped. That was a fabulous. So, my next feature, I now know how to do stunts. I’ve already done that in Karma is a bitch. So, you can merge them both. But again, it depends on what your goals are. This is my five-year plan, you see. So, every project I’m doing will lead me closer to making siku. That’s my creative baby. That’s what I’m writing at the moment. And that writing process has already taken me a year and a half. And that’s the difference as well. I can knock out a script in three days. That’s easy. And I can tweak it and then we can shoot it and I can make a fun rom com. But my creative that that’s sure thing that I’m really working on. It’s going to take me two and a half years, you know?
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So sound advice. Is that pyramid of purpose. That’s not something you created. That’s like…
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
No, it is but it’s part of my mindful tools, but I give it to everybody. It’s great. It’s medicine with words. And I give that to everyone and it’s on my Instagram and it’s on my Tik Tok, but I think it’s very important and it’s something that I believe you can also use in relationships you can use it in life in general, you could use in a career. So, for example, Cannes Film Festival is happening in four weeks’ time. And I did this for Cannes and I said does going to Cannes bring me closer to making siku. Actually, my outcome was no. So, I’m not going to go. So, it really gives you that intention. I live very much intentionally everything I do has that. So yes, feed utilized pyramid of purpose with whatever you need, like I work with screenwriters, influences actors, helping them find that clarity.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, perfect. Perfect. Yeah, I think that looks like a great tool. So, let’s just talk about the script for Hunt Club just a little bit. Were there some specific things that didn’t work for you in the script that you had to go back to the writer and, and sort of work with and maybe you can just talk about those. And especially in a situation like this, I always, as a writer, you find yourself in situations where, you know, you’re talking to the producer who also wrote the things. So, you’ve got to be a little careful about how you and this is someone you knew and stuff, but maybe you can talk to that a little bit? What were some of the problems? And how did you approach those problems with this?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Yes, definitely. I’m kind of going to give you three examples, actually. Because utilizing Hunt Club, it’s more about the edit that we did a lot of reworking, actually, and removed quite a few sections that we had filmed when we realized which way the story should be heading. So, it was much more male oriented before. And so, we realize I said, this is all got to go because this is relevant to the female driven story, we need to get to the women. First, we need to get the story of the Mother-daughter, we get the men as long as we hate them. That’s all that matters. So, the Edit had a lot of deconstructing that, yes, David being on set did mean he would come in and fix things. As I said, my pre-production personally, I normally like to do months and months of it on scripts that I have. And I’ve done read throughs. And I know it and it’s flowed, and we find huge problems and you fix them. One of the other films that I did, I had a writer on set who was a TV writer. And actually, what was so great about that was I could say, I haven’t got time to shoot this I need this shortened. Or actually, could you rework this? And she did. And again, she had her baby, but she understood the parameters with which we were working. And then you get, you know, the big films, my mentors just film something at the moment. And again, he likes having the writer there. But generally, he has to say to the writer, I need you to do this, this needs altering. And a writer has to have that flexibility, because they also don’t know how we’re going to cut it in the edit. And you know, the edit to me is the film.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So, let’s talk about the next steps. Okay, so once you guys had this script, were you at all involved in the money raising? Can you speak to that a little bit? I’m always curious, just to sort of hear just even in just broad strokes, how this film was put together financially?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot of the times, I don’t get involved in any of this, because I really don’t like it. And I don’t really like deliverables and all the distribution element as well. So, it’s great when you have someone like lack ago, we were able to put that together for you. But generally, they go for the names, who are the names that we’ve got, is that going to sell, what’s marketable? And you can sometimes do pre sales, or you have a company that funds your movie, which is generally what I’ve had. I often have people giving me money first, and then I go; oh, God, I better write the script. So, I’ve done it very haphazardly in that way, every single movie, because people believe in Me and believe in my product and what I’m going to do. And also, it’s great when you say you’ve got a movie, I had the rom com, just swipe that, you know, made three times its money. So people go, oh, she knows what she’s doing. She knows how to get that. But obviously, finding money is a very difficult aspects. Then I’ve got all of these skills to my name, and I’m still now starting again, you’re a new business, you’re an entrepreneur, it’s a startup, every single time. Because you have to find the audience that wants to fund those types of movies.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So, then the next question is, you know, what about the cast? Maybe you can speak a little bit to getting this cast attached. At what stage was the script, did you guys have money already in place before you got the cast? Or did you have the cast and use that to go and get the money?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Yeah, no, we had the money first. And again, as a director, I’ll never go to cast unless I’ve got the money. I just won’t put my name to sell something like that. I have to know that the money’s there and I’ll say and these are my start dates. And obviously the you know, the bigger cast you get, you then have to work around dates because everybody is always busy and always working. So then there’s flexibility with saying Well okay, we wanted that cost. Do we wait for them or do we not? We had an actor that wanted to play the lead in, the second lead actually in my Karma is a Bitch. But his dates were not going to work out with my First lead. So, there was no way that I could make that happen. And I always believe things happen for the right reasons. And we ended up with a phenomenal cast. So, it’s again, it depends if you know them personally, you might be able to attach them. But I’d never go out to someone if I didn’t have the money.
Ashley
Gotcha, gotcha. So just a general question, what advice do you have for screenwriters that are looking to break into the industry, you must have some people that come knocking on your door, at least in your inbox and stuff. But what’s your general advice for someone that’s new to this and wants to kind of get their feet wet?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
I think flexibility. I think making a project, it doesn’t matter, even if it’s your friends, if you can prove that you can make one of your scripts and it works. Because honestly, the once you start making that screenplay, you’ll realize; oh, actually, I wrote that because I thought that worked and it doesn’t. So practical elements for writers to really learn. I had a young girl that started with me as an intern. And she now works full time and she writes scripts. She said that she learned so much more by being on my set as a PA then the second AD to help her as a writer. Because she was like, oh, I see why that doesn’t work. Or I see why when you need to move quickly that needs to happen. So, I think writers need to experience what it’s actually like to be on set and make something even if it’s a short see what that’s like, get your phone out, get your friends and make it put it together. Did it work out like you thought it was? Because we can all write something beautifully. But does it flow? Does it work? I think practical experience.
Ashley
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Sound Advice. So, I just like to wrap up these interviews by asking the guests if there’s anything they’ve seen recently that they can recommend to our mostly screenwriting audience, anything that’s out there right now, Hulu, Netflix, HBO, that you’ve seen that you thought maybe would be good for people to check out?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
I actually saw something last night as a screening. I thought it was phenomenal. I don’t know if and where people can see it. And it’s an indie film, I believe, but I’m sure the budget is probably still huge, but called 1001. And it’s about I won’t reveal too much. But it’s a mother son’s story set in New York in 94, then spans 2001-2005. But the pace of it is so beautifully slow. It’s wonderful. It’s not one of those movies that people are going to immediately buy or go to, because it’s Marvel or whatever. It’s just beautifully written. Very emotional, the acting is superb. And then actually, you know what I would say, and I was talking about it with my daughter last night, it’s 10 years, 12 years old now or 10 years old, because she was eight in it. But her movie, Little Glory. I don’t know if people can get that. But I still think that is one of the most beautiful stories and films that I’ve ever seen that my daughter was in and it reminded me of this last night. So Little Glory. And I think that’s available online in places. But yeah, those two I just think they were really good, truthful people stories.
Ashley
Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, we’ll definitely round that up for the shows people can check this out. There’s a great recommendations. I noticed too you have index cards pasted behind you. Is that part of your screenwriting process? I’m always curious to find as you’re a big end indexer and that sort of stuff.
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Yeah, yeah, has to be by hand. It has to be I even draw pictures. I’ve got a book at the moment where one of our lead characters is a mother, I’ve drawn her as a stick person. And I’m writing around her character traits. Now luckily, it’s based on the true story. But I have to see it, I have to visually see it. And then I watch the movie in my head. And then I write the synopsis. And then I go into characters more. But that’s a cool creative process that I love to do and take the time. You know.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So how can people see Hunt Club? Do you know what the release schedule is going to be like for it?
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Yeah, it’s out now. It’s out now everywhere. So, it’s online and all that usual platforms. I think they just type it in. It’ll say where can I watch this? Yeah, so go for it.
Ashley
Perfect. And what’s the best way for people to keep up with what you’re doing. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, blog, anything, you’re comfortable sharing our roundup for the show notes so people can click over to it.
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Okay, three ways of finding me. So, I have my personal which is Elizabeth_B_T. That is Instagram. That’s Facebook. Then I’ve got my Medicine With Words, which is my mind coaching. That is www.medicinewithwords.com, medicine with words Instagram, medicine with words Tik Tok, and then my motheranddaughterent.com or motheranddaughterent Instagram.
Ashley
Perfect. We’ll grab all that and round up the show notes. So, Elizabeth, I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me. Congratulations, getting this film done. In good luck with it.
Elizabeth Blake Thomas
Thank you very much, Ashley.
Ashley
Thank you. We’ll talk to you later. Bye.
A quick plug for the SYS screenwriting analysis service, it’s a really economical way to get a high-quality professional evaluation on your screenplay. When you buy our three pack, you get evaluations at just $67 per script for feature films, and just $55 for teleplays. All the readers have professional experience reading for studios, production companies, contests and agencies. You can read a short bio on each reader on our website, and you can pick the reader who you think is the best fit for your script. Turnaround time is usually just a few days but rarely more than a week. The readers will evaluate your script on six key factors; Concept, Character, Structure, Marketability, Tone, and Overall Craft which includes formatting, spelling and grammar. Every script will get a great pass, consider or recommend, which should help you roughly understand where your script might rank if you were to submit it to a production company or agency. We can provide an analysis on features or television scripts. We also do proofread without any analysis. We will also look at a treatment or outline and give you the same analysis on it. So, if you’re looking to vet some of your project ideas, this is a great way to do it. We will also write your logline and synopsis for you. You can add this logline and synopsis writing service to an analysis or you can simply purchase this service as a standalone product. As a bonus, if your screenplay gets a recommend or a consider from one of our readers, you get to list the screenplay in the SYS select database, which is a database for producers to find screenplays, and a big part of our SYS select program. Producers are in the database searching for material on a daily basis, so it’s another great way to get your material in front of them. As a further bonus, if your script gets a recommend from one of our readers, your screenplay will get included in our monthly best of newsletter. Each month, we send out a newsletter that highlights the best screenplays that have come through our script analysis service. This is a monthly newsletter that goes out to our list of over 400 producers who are actively looking for material. So again, this is another great way to get your material out there. So, if you want a professional evaluation of your screenplay at a very reasonable price, check out www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/consultants. Again, that’s sellingyourscreenplay.com/consultants. On the next episode of the podcast, I’m going to be interviewing Bumani Story who just did a really cool horror film called the Angry Black Girl and her Monster. This is a modern-day reimagining of the classic Frankenstein story. He’s got a great story on how he was able to get this script produced. He is very transparent comes on to talk about all that. He started out at a production company as an assistant editor and kind of networked through that really does go into all of these the ins and outs of bringing this project together, how he wrote it, and then ultimately how he was able to get it to his bosses. As he was working as an assistant editor. They liked it and then ultimately, they were able to greenlight it. So, he goes through his whole story. It’s really fascinating. It’s a great again, just another great story from someone who’s just out there writing scripts and just seizing opportunities and making things happen. So, keep an eye out for that episode next week. That’s the show. Thank you for listening.