This is a transcript of SYS 492 – Climbing The Mountain On Outpost With Joe Lo Truglio .
Welcome to Episode 492 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger with sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I’m interviewing actor turn writer director Joe LoTruglio. He was a regular on the comedy series Brooklyn Nine-Nine. He also starred in Reno 911 and has done just a lot of comedy work as an actor. But he comes on the podcast today to talk about his latest writing and directing effort. He just did a low-budget horror film called Outpost. So, we talked about how he transitioned from an actor to writer director, and also how he was able to put this feature film together, so stay tuned for that interview. If you find this episode valuable, please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes, or giving me a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread word about the podcast, so they’re very much appreciated. Any websites or links that I mentioned the podcasts can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on. You can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcasts and then just look for episode number 492. If you want my free guide How to Sell a screenplay in five weeks, you can pick that up by going to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s completely free, you just put in your email address, and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks along with a bunch of bonus lessons. Teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay in that guide. I’ll teach you how to write a professional logline and query letter and how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material, really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. So, now let’s get into the main segment. Today, I am interviewing actor turned writer director, Joe LoTruglio. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome Joe to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Joe LoTruglio
Thanks for having me. I’m very happy to be here.
Ashley
So, to start out, maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background. Where do you grow up, and how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Joe LoTruglio
I was born in New York and grew up down in South Florida. And like many people, Jaws was a big influence and was the first movie that not just scared me but kind of got me into how movies are made, like how they’re doing that. And so, the craft of filmmaking and so it also kind of launched me into a love for the horror genre, which really, I kind of began as a creative person diving into, you know, I went over to comedy through a sketch group I was in called State inn and have, you know, a terrific career in comedy, which I love and will continue to do. But after having had some seasons on Brooklyn nine-nine, and being able to squirrel away some money, I was finally able to produce in finance, a horror movie, which is something I wanted to do since I was 13.
Ashley
Okay, perfect. Perfect. Yeah. And so maybe we’ll dig in a little bit to that as well. But in the meantime, let’s dig into Outpost. This is your latest feature film, which you wrote and directed. Maybe you can give us a quick pitch or a logline, what’s this film all about?
Joe LoTruglio
The movie is about an abuse survivor, a troubled woman who decides to take a job as a volunteer for three months in a fire observatory tower in the mountains of Idaho, in order to reclaim her power. But the PTSD and the isolation starts to really mess with their mind. And we go from there.
Ashley
And where did this idea come from? What was sort of the genesis of this idea?
Joe LoTruglio
This idea was really a product of the limitations of the production. So, you know, I began with knowing that I was going to produce this movie myself, it was an independent feature, the cast needed to be small, and I needed some production value. And so, I started thinking of environments and settings that could do that. And the top of a mountain was a really good one. I didn’t want to think about the logistics of shooting a movie on top of a mountain at that point. So, I just started kind of explore stories and ideas that might take place up there. My favorite kind of sub-genre of the horror movies have spin descends into madness, or isolation. Movies where the POV plays a big part. Reality plays a big part, a person’s perception of what’s going on around them is a big part. And so, I started to explore some story ideas from there. Also, you know, my wife, Beth Dover is a terrific actor. It being an independent film production. I knew it was going to be in our life for a while. And so, a female protagonist came into play in terms of the type of story I wanted as well. So, I kind of reverse engineered this particular idea, I’ve written a couple of other horror screenplays that were a bit too expensive. And so, Outpost was a true attempt to really narrow down the cost. And so, Outpost was probably the I think that was the fourth screenplay that I had written.
Ashley
Did you have any experience? I mean, because as a producer and independent producer myself exactly what you’re saying lugging film equipment up a mountain does not seem all that easy. Did you have some of this stuff in place? Like, did you have an idea of Oh, I know I remember seeing this Outpost I have a friend that works for the Department of Land Management, we could get that was there anything in place as you started to write this?
Joe LoTruglio
There was nothing in place when I started to write, no. So, I broke the story in the spring of 2018. The script that we actually shot was probably around the 13th draft. So, in 2018, we had a couple of table reads, we didn’t have a location yet. But later that year, we got in contact with a producer in Spokane, Washington, that one of my producers at the time, had a connection with and asked them to start doing some location scouts. And so, they looked at places in in Washington, and then right over there in Idaho, we were doing our own research in Northern California. And finally, in the, I guess, spring of 2019, about a year after that first draft, we were able to find this place in Idaho. Once we had it, my DP Frank Pereira, who I’ve known since I was 17. And I flew there, checked out the tower and started to get to know a Dan Brown, who is the head of the Idaho Department of Lands there. And so, the relationship started there. And it took a while just figuring out what we were able to do, what we were not able to do. Once I had the location, then the script that started rewrites with specific to that location, I was able to kind of really include a lot of the parts of that specific tower, the Sundance tower into the script. So, it was a very long process, tailoring the script to that place. But we finally got it in 2019. And then we shot in summer of 2021. So, we had about two years to know the location scattered a couple of times, create a relationship with Dan Brown, and get to know the community there too, and start to look into vendors that might be able to help us out when we were there. Our crew mostly came out of Spokane, we had some keys come out of Portland, and a couple of keys come out of LA but we wanted to keep costs down once we knew we were going to be in Idaho.
Ashley
Gotcha. Gotcha. And that was what my next question is, you know, what does the cast and crew, is there enough local hires, were you able to bring in any actors locally or was most of the acting flown in from LA?
Joe LoTruglio
The key players were flown in. I haven’t been in the business for a while I am lucky enough to have a lot of talented well-known actors, his close friends, the all of which were in the film. I met Otto Isando plays oil for this movie, he had worked with another actor friend of mine, we became fast friends, we had a terrific Zoom interview. He fit the vibe of the other actors very easily. And now we’re very close. The supporting players, we used a terrific casting director at a Spokane, Nike Imoru. And she was able to really gather a lot of terrific, very talented actors, they’re in that area, that we were able to really fill out the rest of the supporting cast. And they’re dynamite. They have great looks. They’re really good. And then finally, when we were actually shooting, we had two rolls filled by firefighters are with the Idaho Department of Lands. And they were terrific and really added an authenticity to the role that I really don’t think we could have gotten with anyone else.
Ashley
I’m curious, I always just like to ask a filmmaker. I’ve done a lot of shooting in LA on my own low budget films. I’ve done some shooting outside. What do you see as the advantages versus disadvantages? I mean, a lot of what you’re talking about, you have to fly people in rural Idaho, you don’t necessarily have a deep pool of talent, but I always find outside of LA people, whether it be local restaurants, local mayors, local communities, they’re just much more excited about the prospect of a film coming so they’re just much more eager to help as opposed to okay, this is going to cost you this and this is going to cost you that, you know, no one’s giving you free food in LA. But you go to some place like Idaho, they might just think it’s cool to give free food to your cast and crew. But maybe you could talk to them a little bit, what are the advantages of shooting in LA? What are the disadvantages of shooting in LA what are the advantages of being outside of LA and then disadvantages?
Joe LoTruglio
You nailed the main advantage shooting outside LA, which is the enthusiasm that is met by the community that you’re shooting in. And so, we found, having gone on a couple of scouts there before production started. And then in the, I guess, in the two or three weeks, we were in pre-production on location, we were able to create terrific relationships with the vendors, for instance, we were able to contact the Jeep club of Coolin Idaho, the Millwards, Katie and Mike, were really helpful, they were able to provide transportation up that mountain took an hour to drive up there and an hour down. And I didn’t want, you know, a 22-year-old from LA in charge of that responsibility. So, they were great. And so that happened, you know, in the months before getting to know Katie and Mike, we also were introduced to one of the restaurants there, they were able to cater some meals for us to bring up to the top to the summit, 6300 feet. But the advantage the aggressing a little bit, the advantage, I think is that you have a community of people that have never been around a film production before, as you said, you have a lot of people devoting their time, and some other meals and help and access to their space. A couple we had an actor in the movie, who had a great cabin, that’s where we shot a lot of the scenes from the movie. Putting him in the movie allowed us to have his cabin location without a location fee. So, there’s a lot of deals and relationships that you can really get for your movie on a local level. And ultimately, I found that the more you make it about the work and you show these people that you’re there to kind of work and how hard it is. There’s a large amount of respect that comes from the community immediately. And those people like, you know, she’s not all glamour, it’s not all fun. It’s long hours, you’re working hard. And there’s a lot of respect that goes in that you get a lot of respect from those locals once they see that you’re not there for red carpets, and you’re not there for paparazzi and the glamour of it all. LA, you know, as you know, as a producer. It’s just very difficult. A lot of people are, you know, jaded and cynical. Yeah. How do I get out of this? What have you done for me lately? That’s okay. I mean, that’s the that’s the town. But, you know, for independent movie makers, you just can’t do it. You just can’t do it.
Ashley
Yeah. Are there any tax incentives? And I just always like to get the producers perspective. Is does Idaho some tax incentives? Or were there some tax breaks? Did that impact your decision at all?
Joe LoTruglio
No, we don’t, unfortunately, it was not. They do have a good film commission there. But if at our budget, I don’t think that we were able to get one we were our production was a little bit unique. Because we were so tied in to the location, we had to have that tower, that tower was a character in the movie. And so, we didn’t have the luxury of kind of jumping around to states that afforded us a better tax credit. So, that’s kind of the situation we were in there. There was one in Canada, we did look in Vancouver. I think there was one in Washington state as well. But again, that tower was just so creepy. And just such a, I had to have it, that we knew that we were just going to have to be in Idaho.
Ashley
Gotcha, gotcha. So, let’s talk about your writing process a little bit. Maybe you can just take us through sort of how you wrote this script. And to start I just like to get to set sort of the tone of where you write. Do you write in the morning, do you write at night, do you write at Starbucks, do you have a home office? Just what is your sort of daily writing process look like?
Joe LoTruglio
I have an office that I work in. But what I do usually when I have an idea is I’ll go out to Joshua Tree and I’ll get an Airbnb out there and I’ll bring out my corkboard and index cards and just try to get some act break ideas once I have just a general idea of what the movie is about. Find who it’s about, who’s telling the story and then try to start to get some act breaks. It’s all kind of nebulous. Another thing that I do is think of scenes that I want to see. Think of that is tied to this particular idea, what would be a scary scene. These include the type of shots said I would want to see in that particular scene, and then see if that sequence can be a either a story turn or an act break or plot device and see if I can tie something in there. I’ll try to get an idea of the ending, but I won’t harp on that, you know, I want to see the finish line just so I can kind of create those obstacles. But so, I’ll go out to Joshua Tree, I’ll write four in the morning, for about six hours, I’ll take a break, take a walk, take a swim, if the place has a pool, and then do kind of a late afternoon, early evening, and then after that, I’ll turn on some music. I’ll crack open a beer, I’ll relax and try not to think about it. Of course, that’s impossible. But I’ll just think about some of the things that we’re bumping me that evening without really trying to dive too deeply into a problem. That’s usually the relaxing time at the end there.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. How much do you have prepared when you show up at Joshua Tree? Do you have like a notebook of sort of penciled notes? And then what do you actually come out of how long have you had yet you’re at Joshua Tree for like a week, and you come out with like a first draft?
Joe LoTruglio
No, I usually go to Joshua Tree, just take break the treatment. And I’ll go anywhere between three to five days. And you when I go to Joshua Tree, I have a long legal pad with some ideas jotted down, you know, and that’s it. And then when I come back here to, to my house, in the office is when I’ll start to build out a draft. And I’ll try to get that out as quickly as possible. And I’m trying to remember how long the first draft of Outpost took, I want to say maybe a week to 10 days, I’ll try to do it’s terrible. It’s awful. But I’ll try to like get it, get it out, just to get it all there and then start to rewrite. And after that first draft rewrite, then I might start showing it to a handful of screenwriter friends just to see if I’m on track or what the major bumps are.
Ashley
And let’s talk about that a little bit. I’d be curious to hear what your development process is, obviously, you’ve been in the business for a while so you have some professional writer friends, you send them your scripts, they send you your scripts, how do you deal with those notes? Do you ever find notes that you don’t necessarily agree with? How do you put those aside? How do you determine which notes are the good notes and which notes are the bad notes?
Joe LoTruglio
I think they’re all good notes. I think they’re always good notes. Because even the bad notes are going to force you to articulate why you think they’re bad notes. And then it’s going to make you articulate what your specific vision is, and why that particular note is bad or, or bumps up against that vision. So, I think that’s the first thing you do is realize that these are it’s ultimately your script, you’re going to write what you’re going to write. And so, anything that you have a strong reaction to, you should kind of reflect on why that’s such a strong reaction, I found a lot of it is because I haven’t figured it out yet. And I wasn’t very happy to hear that, you know, and so you have to be pretty honest with yourself, why you’re like, oh, well, I just don’t know if that’s true. That’s not what it is. Really be honest with yourself. The first draft notes, really you have to look at pretty closely because there’s going to be a lot of good ones, I think. And you’re going to have like, wow, this this relationship, this was got a strong reaction from this person in a positive way. And they want to hear more about that. Why don’t I have more scenes kind of developing that? Are they truly just supporting characters? What’s their function here up against the main character? Oh, you know what, they actually could represent this theme pretty well. And so, let’s do that. When I start to get into the later drafts second or third, and I get notes, then I just kind of see which notes are coming up over and over again. This I did the same thing when I was in posts and started getting editing notes, which are the notes that keep coming up. There’s something there, if they’re coming up, you’re not as clear with your cut, and you’re not excluding your draft if these notes are coming over and over again. I’m sorry If I’m rambling too much.
Ashley
Not at all. Not at all. This is fascinating just to listen to you. So talking about maybe some of the lessons that you learned, what were some of the challenges in writing the screenplay, and what were some of the lessons that you learned coming out on the other side?
Joe LoTruglio
The biggest lesson, I think, was that I’m going to write more scenes that ultimately I’m going to shoot or we’ll be able to shoot or have enough money to shoot with this particular idea, what I learned is that it’s very hard to try to write a script, where it’s mainly just one character. So you need action and you need these things to move the story forward. And when there’s not a character creating those obstacles, then your challenge becomes what in the environment is going to move this character’s emotional story forward. And so that was very hard for me, I watched, Castaway and I watched a lot of movies that involve just one person and what they bumped into. It also was really helpful to figure out how to write a story where the POV is very, very important. Story of Outposts revolves around, you know, reality that isn’t there. Things that aren’t seen, how am I going to write that in the script that for a reader or for a potential investor is going to be engaging in that they’ll understand I tried to do some things in the third act that was very different than the formula of movies like this. And was that clear in the screenplay? Was it confusing? You know, the having other characters help me clear, the main protagonist, attitude and worldview is so crucial. And I had to use some characters that I had to present as possibly not real, and some are real. And how do I allow that to be fun for the reader or the viewer to engage in that and not be confused with? And I’m talking a little bit I know, abstractly, not to spoil a lot of things. But I don’t know if that makes any sense.
Ashley
Yeah. No, it definitely does. It definitely does, especially for writers. So is there anything, any lessons you’ve learned about just writing for a low budget, I’m a big proponent of low budget scripts, especially for writers that are starting out because there’s always a market for good low budget scripts. And you can generally find producers that are looking for this kind of material a lot easier than the bigger budget stuff. Are there some things obviously, you know, big crowd scenes, helicopters, those are things that we all sort of know, are going to be expensive to shoot, but are there some things that maybe are not quite as intuitive, that you can give this little kernels of knowledge that our writers can understand that these are things that add production value, but don’t actually cost a lot of money?
Joe LoTruglio
Yeah, I think, you know, besides setting, I think if you I was in a unique situation, as I said, with the actors that I knew, I think another way to get production value is just terrific performances and terrific acting. I know not a lot of… I’m in a unique position because of what I’ve done in my past. So, I know for a lot of unknown young filmmakers, they don’t have access to those actors. So, I think another thing to look at in your script, perhaps, besides setting could be simple conflict within the scene that doesn’t revolve around explosions or crashes. It’s tough. It’s very tough. I’ve thought about this in the writing Outposts. Like what things could I write that would be interesting to shoot? Right. Setting is just a big part. I think, you know, unfortunately, you know, apartments have rooms and cabins. Yeah, that’s where low budget lives, if you can find a couple of outdoor areas that you can shoot at, I think that helps. I wish I had more to say to that, but I definitely used a lot of my social capital with my actors.
Ashley
And I think it’s a great tip. I mean, even if you’re not an actor that knows a lot of other actors, you know, the next Brad Pitt is living in North Hollywood right now, struggling to find a role and he will submit your thing. So, it’s up to you, up to us as low budget producers to find spend the time going through resumes and reels and stuff.
Joe LoTruglio
Yeah. And just to add to that, you could watch a show or a movie, and there’ll be an actor in kind of a bigger movie, or maybe even a big independent movie, if not a studio that’s in one scene that is so engaging to watch right that you like, trust me, that guy I bet would consider your independent script. If it’s good, you don’t have to get a star to be in your movie if you just want good acting. Just take a look at some scenery. Like who’s that guy? He has a great look for that woman. She has a great look. I’m just glued to her. I’m so engaged. Look her up on IMDb find out who she’s represented by asked her; Hey, do you want to do this? Because you’d be surprised. You know, these are actors that like, this was my career as an actor, early movie actor early on, you know, they were scenes in Superbad or I love you, man. And people remember that people liked. I was getting scale. I was getting paid for those movies. And so, if I had an opportunity to do to get a great independent script where I was a lead or co-lead, I’m definitely looking at that script. So that’s how it is out there.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So obviously, that’s sort of on the logistic production side, being an actor was a great help. I have found that that is driving selling your screenplay, I interact sometimes with actors where maybe they’ve been a theatre actor. And actually, one of the first successes I had with selling your screenplay was a theatre actor that had written a script. And just I always try and tell people that having experience in the business is helpful. And I just wonder if you can talk to that a little bit. How was being an actor helpful for you then to be a writer. And I’m not talking about the logistics of knowing other actors, but just interpreting material, reading material for years and years, how do you think that helped you as a writer having that well.
Joe LoTruglio
In early in my career, being in a sketch comedy group called the state was like, kind of my bootcamp to understanding writing and structure of Riot and I interned at Saturday Night Live when I was going to NYU. And so, I was in the Film Unit there interning in the Film Unit, and I would just grab some sketches, scripts, actual, you know, take them, and then I took them back and just looked at them, I passed them out to, you know, our state was an intergroup, to the members, and we kind of learned the structure. And then, you know, being the competitive nature of getting on your time, you had to learn how to write otherwise you weren’t going to be in the sketches of the show, right? So, as an actor, I was forced to write. Before that when I was 13, 14, 15, I was writing short stories. I was a big Stephen King fan. I was writing in journals, I made movie, so I was always writing. And so, I brought that into my acting, and then what went from there.
Ashley
Gotcha. Gotcha. So how do people see Outpost? You know what the release schedule is going to be like for it?
Joe LoTruglio
Yes, we’ll be, I don’t know when this airs, but we come out May 19. Friday, May 19. It’ll be on all of video on demand. That’s iTunes and prime. It is in a handful of theaters. If you’re in the LA area. We are a cinema lounge, Hollywood. So, we’ll be there all this week. And we’ll be in Plano, Texas and Seaford New York and mentor Ohio, and Reiner California outside San Francisco. If you go to www.Outpostmovie.com, all that information will be on there. And I really hope you check it out. We’re very proud of it.
Ashley
Yep. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. And I’ll put that link in the show notes as well. I just like to end the interviews by asking the guests, is there anything you’ve seen recently that you thought was really great that our mostly screenwriter audience could get some value out of?
Joe LoTruglio
Yeah. I mean, the go toos, of course, are Secession, and also Barrier, those two shows, I think are just so economical in their writing, and their character development. And they do it within just a few lines, and sometimes no lines at all. I know that’s an easy answer. But you know, in terms of movies, there’s a movie called The Void, was done by Steve kostanski. I think it’s I pronounce his last name and another director, co-director, that I just loved that movie. And I just thought that the script itself was just terrific. And so, you know, I’ll just throw that out as well. It’s an older movie. It’s sent out recently. But I loved it.
Ashley
That’s a great recommendation. So yeah, thank you for those. And I just want to ask, what’s the best way for people to keep up with what you’re doing? Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, I will get www.Outpostmovie.com, I’ll put that in the show notes. But if people want to just follow along with what you’re doing in your career, what’s the best way?
Joe LoTruglio
Yeah, I think the best way is Instagram is Joe LoTruglio. And that’s the same for TikTok as well, and Twitter. So, you can get all updates there and that can also direct you to films.
Ashley
How you doing on TikTok? It seems like a young man’s game on TikTok.
Joe LoTruglio
Terrible, it’s terrible. Like crowd post created a great like, I’ll post TikTok that I jump on but like, I’m, I totally admit like I am. I am I’ve aged out of that. And so, I go on there every now and then.
Ashley
But I’m still learning TikTok as well as I don’t know what to do on there. So, we’ll probably Joe, I really appreciate you coming on the show. I’ll grab all that stuff for the show notes. Good luck with this film and good luck with your future films as well.
Joe LoTruglio
Thanks so much for having me. This was a wonderful talk to you. Thank you.
Ashley
We’ll talk to you later. Bye.
SYS is from concept to completion, screenwriting course is now available, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/screenwritingcourse, it will take you through every part of writing a screenplay, coming up with a concept, outlining, writing the opening pages, the first act, second act, third act and then rewriting. And then there’s even a module at the end on marketing your screenplay once it’s polished and ready to be sent out. We’re offering this course in two different versions, the first version, you get the course, plus, you get three analyses from SYS reader, you’ll get one analysis on your outline, and then you’ll get to analyses on your first draft of your screenplay. This is just our introductory price, you’re getting three full analyses, which is actually the same price as our three-pack analysis bundle. So, you’re essentially getting the course for free when you buy the three analyses that come with it. And to be clear, you’re getting our full analysis with this package. The other version doesn’t have the analysis, so you’ll have to find some friends or colleagues who will do the feedback portion of the course with you. I’m letting SYS select members do this version of the course for free. So, if you’re a member of SYS select you already have access to it. You also might consider that as an option. If you join SYS, you will get the course as part of that membership too. A big piece of this course is accountability. Once you start the course, you’ll get an email every Sunday with that week’s assignment. And if you don’t complete it, we’ll follow up with another reminder the next week, it’s easy to pause the course if you need to take some time off. But as long as you’re enrolled, you’ll continue to get reminders for each section until it’s completed. The objective of the course is to get you through it in six months so that you have a completed power screenplay ready to be sent out. So, if you have an idea for a screenplay, and you’re having a hard time getting it done, this course might be exactly what you need. If this sounds like something you’d like to learn more about, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/screenwritingcourse. It’s all one word, all lowercase. I will of course a link to the course in the show notes and I will put a link to the course on the homepage up in the right-hand sidebar.
On the next episode of the podcast, I’m going to be interviewing John Fitzgerald. He is the co-founder of the Slamdance Film Festival and runs filmmaking for change, which is a bunch of resources for filmmakers to make films that transform the world. And he is the co-founder of cause cinema and cause pictures where he’s produced a number of films. We talked through his career, the film festivals, Slamdance and how to infuse your own fit own films with real meaning without being preachy. So, keep an eye out for that episode next week. That’s the show. Thank you for listening.