This is a transcript of SYS 525 – Writing an Action Movie Starring Chuck Norris with Derek Ting.
Welcome to episode 525, of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger, but sellingyourscreenplay.com today I am interviewing screenwriter, director, producer and actor, Derek Ting. He just completed an action film starring the great Chuck Norris and Mark Singer, another 80s actors who you might remember from the iconic 80s film, Beastmaster. Derek leans into this retro vibe with these actors and really created something that is an homage to the great action films from the 80s. This film is a sequel to some other features he’s made. So, we’ll talk about that, how he was able to get the legendary actor, Chuck Norris and how this project came together for him. So, stay tuned for that interview.
If you find this episode valuable, please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes or leaving a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter, or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread word about the podcast, so they’re very much appreciated. Any websites or links that I mentioned in the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode, in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on, you can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcast, and then just look for episode number 525. If you want my free guide How to Sell a screenplay in five weeks, you can pick that up by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s completely free. Just put in your email address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks, along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay. In that guide, I’ll teach you how to write a professional logline and query letter, and how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material. Really, is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay. Just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide.
So, a quick few words about what I’m working on. I don’t know if you can notice, but about a month ago, I had a tooth pulled out, and it’s still a little bit painful, so I’m having a little trouble speaking here, it was a wisdom tooth that I probably should have had pulled out years ago, so I’m sort of suffering through that now. So obviously the film festival is now less than two months away, so I’m starting to ramp up all of those preparations. It’s October 4th through October 6th. Here in Los Angeles, I should have the website up and running so you can buy tickets in the next few weeks. So, keep an eye out for that. And the screenplay contest is also closed, so I’ll be reading a lot of those scripts in the next month as well. I guess this is sort of the busy season now for SYS, as I have a ton to do with the festival and the contest, so that’ll be consuming most of my time for the next month or two, although I’m still working on this spec rom-com that I’ve been talking about. So hopefully I can keep some of that momentum going and just try and keep some writing schedule going as I get busy on some of these other things. Anyway, those are some of the things I’ve been working on. Now let’s get into the main segment. Today I am interviewing filmmaker Derek Ting. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome Derek to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Derek Ting
Thanks for having me.
Ashley
So, to start out, maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background. Where’d you grow up, and how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Derek Ting
I grew up in New York. I watched a lot of movies with my dad. Growing up, we’d read movies from the local store, grab the new releases and the ones that weren’t, and we’d watch 10 movies over the weekend and make sure you rewind them and return them on time. But that you know that that was the beginnings of my career. I mean, sorry, of my passion for movies, but I didn’t really think it was a career, but I took some acting classes at Cornell, and fell in love with acting, and wanted to be an actor, but took a normal day job, and during 9-11 I was there, and it that experience made me think about, you know, what I really want to do with my life and how short it was. So, I started taking steps to become an actor, and in that process, I realized, whoa, you know, if you really want to be in control of your career, you have to start writing and creating your own stuff. And it wasn’t until I moved to Hong Kong that I had a transition to media. So, I worked for Google and Tech, but I worked for CNN when I moved to Hong Kong as a producer, and that was kind of like my transition to the media. I learned a lot of stuff about just making promos and editing and all that stuff in Hong Kong, these directors asked me to be in their commercials, and then one thing led to another. I got a part in a movie, and so I’m sitting there halfway around the world, thinking – Hey, you know, I’m interested in filmmaking. I didn’t move halfway around the world to work at CNN. I want to be a filmmaker. So, I grinded it out nights and weekends at another company and started writing my first script, super capitalist, and that’s a Financial Thriller, and that came out in 2012, it was released by Warner Brothers, and is one of the first day and date movies. And that did, that did okay, and that propelled me to do my second movie, which was Always and that got released by Paramount. And then my third movie was agent. That was a very small budget, and that was my first variety in action. So that, you know, I grew up on action movies with my dad bringing it back. You know, I wanted to take that next step in my craft, to tackle action. And I think action is a really tough genre to tackle because you know you’re working with stunt team, and it’s hard to make it look good and real. But at that time, I went, you know, when I was in LA, I pitched Action Factory, who’s one of the top teams, and they have relationships with all the best stunt guys, and I made that movie with them. They were there to help me out and learn the ropes, and the movie did well enough to get into Hulu. And from there, I just built, I built again towards a bigger budget. And we did agent revelation, which is the sequel to the first agent. And after making that movie, which was another really tough journey, he got onto paramount and Showtime and got a, what’s called a pay one deal, which is like a cable TV deal, which is a, it’s actually a big deal to get that, if you’ve made a movie, and it was during the pandemic, so I think it it probably could have got a theatrical but, you know, obviously at that time, no one was going to theaters. And then, you know, with all this traction and this track record, I made Agent Recon and, you know, and here we are.
Ashley
Yeah, so we’ll dig into Agent Recon here in a second. Let me just go back on a couple things that you just said and dig into that a little bit like so, making this transition. You said you’re working in tech for Google, making a transition to CNN and media. How did you make that transition? Did you have, like, a degree in media studies or something, or just what? And was there some forethought in that? Were you thinking at this point, I want to start getting closer to, you know, acting and producing and directing and writing, so I’m going to sort of go in that direction. Was there some planning out and just, how did you make that transition?
Derek Ting
It certainly was a very windy road. I mean, the story is that, like as an actor at that time, first, when I was working at Google and these tech companies, I’d take a cab to go to the audition, and I’d rush back to my job, like sweating because I was just trying to get back on time, you know, you kind of time it, and you’re like, okay, if I go to the audition, then I read, and then I come back, you know, I can be back in two or three hours and block off a meeting. So, you know, it was really, like, at that time was all I really was, you know, it was like a moonlight thing. And I didn’t really think of it too… I didn’t think too hard about it, honestly, but once you’ve landed a couple jobs and gigs. So, I had made money as an actor, I just wasn’t getting roles in parts that were legit and big enough, and it wasn’t a career that was really taking me anywhere. So, because I wasn’t in control of my career, right? You’re waiting, if you’re in the actor’s seat, you’re waiting for somebody to cast you, and you’re just interviewing, and you’re just asking for a job, like, Hey, I’m, here’s my resume, and here’s anyway. So that’s when I started, like, thinking about adding skills. So, I made my first short film at that time, and I did take an ending class at NYU, and I took a lot of different classes. And, you know, I made my first short film with some friends. You know, you make some make a short film with some friends, and you’re shooting on the weekend, and then this guy has a camera, and, like, at that time was like the Canon XL or something. It was like, DV tape. So, and you know, you get this guy, and then you get and then, you know, you get Final Cut Pro, and we’re like, and I’m just like, editing and editing and editing and trying to make this movie and, like, add some music. It was really, I mean, it was just really ghetto. It was okay, but it was just, you know, it’s just one of those things where you’re just kind of learning, but in the process, what happened was actually got pretty good at some of these things because they kept them refining the edit and writing and all these things and understanding how things work. That when I when I moved to Hong Kong, the story is that I actually didn’t have a job. I was just looking between LA and Hong Kong, thinking, I’m a point in my life where I want to switch things up. I like, I’m doing well at my job. But, you know, I know you kind of know where the path is. And I got lucky and that one of my friends was like, hey, they’re looking for a producer at CNN. I had, like, zero qualifications to be a producer, but I had skills, and it just so happened that they had a project. So, like – Hey, do you want this project? I’m like, Yeah, sure, I’m not doing anything. I just moved here and then at that point, I did the project. And then they’re like, Hey, you’re pretty good. And what else can you do? And then it’s like, how about you do this? And like, okay, and then I do it, and they’re like – Oh, this is pretty good, too. And the next thing you know, they’re like, you want to work full time as a producer. I’m like, okay, yeah. So, the transition to media was like that, and then the transition to writing a script and putting together, I mean, that was like a whole another ball game and putting the other film. But really, you know, I just started with trying to write the best script possible, and then putting together as a producer, putting together different parts, like getting cast. Like, at that time, a friend of mine knew Linus Roach, who had been law and order and Emmy nominee and everything, and it’s like, I sent him the script and said, hey, you know, I love you for this part. You know, I’d pitch friends, I’d pitch everybody I knew, and ask them for money, like, Hey, are you interested in, like, investing in my film, so things like that. And that’s essentially how I ended up putting together my first film, super capitalist, correct? Yeah. And, you know, since you’re, you know, since we’re talking about how things kind of come about, I went through such a journey trying to send it to all these different places and get it released. And the way I got it released was when gravitas was just starting out. They’re like the like the new company on the blog, video on demand was new, you know. And I sent them my movie. I said – Here’s my trailer and I noticed that they had, you know, a good kind of theatrical on demand business, and they, they just responded back and said, hey, you know, we think we can pitch this to Warner Brothers for you. And are you interested? I’m like, Yeah, hell yeah, because I’ve been through the whole like rigmarole of trying to get it to festivals and trying to get it to sales agents and running into walls and nothing, and then suddenly, boom. It’s like Warner Brothers, you know. And then, you know, so, so, yeah, I mean, the Warner Brothers executives watch the trailer, some probably watch the movie, and they’re like, Okay, this could be an interesting movie. It’s timely. It’s a financial thriller. So, next thing we know, our movies, like, right next to Batman. You know, it’s like Batman, I think Batman Begins was, is one of the Batman films. And I’m just like, wow, that’s really cool. Like, my little indie movie is, like, in the Warner Brothers catalog.
Ashley
As you’re moving along in your career, you’re taking on new tasks, like, it says you like you were saying, you just edited this short film and stuff. Once you start to make that leap to like a feature film, how do you just have the confidence to talk people in now you’re talking about going to people that you know and saying – Hey, do you want to kick in a bunch of money? I’m making this feature film. I’ve never done it before. I’ve never made any money with film like, how do you have just sort of, you know, the confidence to go through and convince people to give you money and to believe in you that you’re going to get it done?
Derek Ting
Well, I’ll tell you. Like in my writing ability, I had zero confidence, because I had, you know, I was a B student in English, you know, and communication, not very good. Public speaking, terrible. A lot of things, you know, by the way, public speaking and acting very different. So, I don’t know. I just, I think, at the beginning of your career, you almost have nothing to lose. Does that make sense? You have nothing to lose really, because you’re like, hey, you know, I’m Moonlighting, you know, this is not my day job, and this is not a full-time career. But I put down, you know, put together this pretty cool idea. It’s relevant, and it’s a good script here, here’s the script. Would you be interested in reading it? You know, at that time in my career, that worked, because there, you know, I found people who are looking and interested into film. You know, film is attractive to people to be a part of and support. And it’s very impactful, but also that, I think my script was really good, you know, it was solid enough and even I remember Linus Roach reading it, and, you know, when he responded, he said, like, you know, the best thing about your script is I could see it, you know, I can see it when I’m reading it. So, and I think because it was so relevant, it resonated with him too. We just come out off the 0809, financial crisis. So, people have been taught, you know it actually. And then, of course, when the movie came out, like all these other bigger budget movies came out, like arbitrage and like margin call and our little. Movie is being compared to them and everything it was, you know, is a quite interesting thing where I kind of hit you kind of hit it on all cylinders. But, you know, the other part of it was that I started, actually started writing that script before the financial crisis, like around 07, and then it hit. So, like I felt like this was an interesting time, because interest rates were dropping, like, like a rock and people are just spending money left and right and throwing money here and there. And I was like, this can’t last, but the lifestyle that these people are leading, and the things that probably and then, of course, Asia’s growing, you know this, and it’s, I’m out in Hong Kong and China. I’m like, this has got to be a cool movie that people haven’t seen before. It’s a different world. So, I’m not sure if it’s necessarily about confidence in myself, but I think it’s confidence in the idea and sharing that with other people and testing that and seeing if they if that resonates with them, and the more people that you can resonate with that think – hey, you know what? That actually is a pretty good idea, you know? And then finding the right person who can actually back you and do that, then that’s, that’s how I’ve been able to gain confidence myself. So, I’m providing this. I’m creating my skill is bringing me to somebody, and if my skills are terrible, then even if I got a great idea, I would probably fail and never get off the ground. But I’m able to close the gap with my skills.
Ashley
Yeah. Okay, so let’s dig into your latest film, Agent Recon, starring Chuck Norris and Mark singer. Maybe to start out, you can just give us a pitch or logline. What is this film all about?
Derek Ting
Agent Recon. I mean, Chuck Norris, character is Alistair. He’s the commander of this secret alien organization, and he sends out a group of battle hearted Marines, led by Mark Singer. And I’m, I come along for the ride, my character, Jim Young, and we go on this recon mission to find this missing soldier. And when we go to this base, things go crazy, things go awry, and we’re we just have to fight our way through.
Ashley
So, this is part of a trilogy, and maybe you can speak to that a little bit. Did one film lead to the others? Did you have sort of a grand master plan when you did the first one that would lead up to this? Do you have more of them in the making?
Derek Ting
Christopher Nolan always talks about, like, when he made Batman, he wasn’t thinking about the trilogy. He was just trying to make the best movie possible, and looking at the genre. And you know, what kind of type of movie he was selling and creating. And that’s always been the case and so in my career, I’ve always looked for growth, and agent was a lot of the elements came together. I found this really awesome location in the desert that I could film at, and I knew I could do it self-contained, and I wanted to do action. And so, you know, there was an investor who was like, who saw my last movie is like, whatever next movie you’re going to do, like, I want to be a part of that. I want to invest in in your next movie, whatever it is. So, you know, there’s this timeline. And then I had other investors who were like, okay, cool, you know, like, I liked your first two movies, what else do you want to do on your third, but I was very careful about, like, what that would be and why. Wanted to launch it very quickly. So, I did it with a very small budget, because it’s shot out in the desert. And, you know, that one did well enough to propel me to part two. So, you know, it’s just really a lot of it is like that one, actually, I was experimenting with the horror aspect and sci fi and action. The first one, that’s really, there’s lots of elements of horror, which I don’t actually even, not even that good at, but there’s lots of elements there that I was exploring. And then on the second one, I’m, you know, building upon that so. And that one was another, that one was a non-linear one. I actually this Agent Revelation. I think I’ll be honest. You know, I struggle. You struggle with every movie that you make. Doing a sequel is not easy. Doing a sequel is not easy because you wanted to be bigger, better, and you’re continuing the story, so you’re not really starting from scratch. Which Agent One actually, it was from scratch. So, you can, like, build your character. It could be single arc, single character, but the moment you get into multi character, multi arc, you know, then I started getting a little non-linear and but it ended, and it ended up being good enough to get on paramount and Showtime. So, not so bad. And then this third one. Now you have, like, multiple leads, multiple arcs, but a singular mission, and it’s self-contained.
Ashley
So, where did this story come from? Maybe you can speak to that, like, where did the idea, what sort of the genesis of this story?
Derek Ting
I always do, like so much research. I mean, it sometimes it just comes from living, living, really, because, and I don’t want to make it sound simple, but this really is a story which I’ve told other people. It’s a friend of mine. We went out and you know, I never shot a weapon before. And I was like, you know, I never shot a weapon for he was like, oh, well, you’re in Arizona, and we can change that. And we went out to the desert. I he had a friend that had like, every single different type of weapon, like you can imagine, including an actual, like, kind of sniper gun and Tannerite. And that was actually that which made it into the first movie. And I was like, this is like, an ‘Oh’ moment, you know, you’re kind of like, oh, this is really interesting. And so, I always just start with something from that nature is like a part of life that I find like in this snapshot of time, this could be very interesting. And that was the same thing with super capitalist. I had a lot of friends that were in the financial industry, and they were leading insane lives, spending money like water and I was like, this is going to end somehow. This is not going to end very well, but, but the that segment of time is something that I want to capture. So, it’s always kind of been like that, of where it started. But then I do tons of research like to understand, like the financial world, people think that I’m actually people think I’m a banker, probably because I’m Asian, people think I’m a banker. You know that, like, good with numbers, by the way, I am good with numbers, but I had to read a lot of books and watch a lot of movies to really understand the lingo and then understand like, how to make the plot intricate enough for bankers. And the same thing with this. I researched the Anunnaki, I researched the Dolce bass, which I thought was really interesting. YouTube is a treasure trove of conspiracy theories, and I love diving deep and watching like Discovery Channel or something about, like, aliens. So, I this whole backstory and lore around that. And then, of course, I think my passion for zombie movies and vampires and aliens like, and how would I approach that.
Ashley
So, for Agent Recon, and you’ve talked about this first movie, Agent was a very contained action film, how much did you know going into Agent Recon when you’re writing the script, how much did you sort of know in terms of the pieces you had in place? Like, for instance, you had sort of this abandoned city set that you made good use of, you know, having Mark Singer and Chuck Norris. I mean, the role for Chuck Norris was perfectly suited to him. He’s obviously a little on the old side. He’s this iconic figure, so you gave him a role that was sort of very noble, you know, he sort of sacrifices at the end and stuff. So, it’s an actor like that. Could see himself in that sense. But I’m just curious, like, how much of that was going through your head as you’re writing this thing. Were there some business considerations? Were there some things you were considering with the characters, with the locations, as you were writing this, just for practical sort of business considerations?
Derek Ting
Well, I wrote this towards the end of the pandemic, and I think as a filmmaker, I really thought about, okay, what type of movies do I want to make, and who do I want to be and I, of course, the 80s and 90s was an amazing time, but I didn’t just like base or study any old movie in the 80s and 90s. I studied the best, for example, like Jim Cameron’s aliens is one of my favorite movies, and that’s a sequel to alien. And it’s completely different. It’s completely different genre. But the premise is very simple and similar to this one, which is a group of hardened Marines go to this base and they encounter something unexpected, and then it goes crazy from there. And the behavior of these characters, which is really interesting. That’s one of the things that I really loved about this movie. Like Bill Paxton’s character, like, you know game over man, you know it’s like one of those is, you know, like him being so tough in the very beginning, and then when he’s faced with this, this alien, he just collapses in terms of bravery. I went to the archive of some of the best movies. Predator is also one of my favorites as well. And obviously, I think you would see hints of that. It’s the same simple premise. But, you know, it’s solid enough to expand and make it, make the story your own. And so, I don’t think I wasn’t really trying to say, I’m writing a part for Mr. Norris or Mark Singer. I was trying to write an compelling character that has an arc, and you know, that would attract an actor of that magnitude. Now, I did not expect that someone like Chuck Norris would come back after 12 years and support my movie. That was a blessing. It was a gift. It was a miracle. And I actually really hadn’t thought through the gravity of the situation that I had created for myself. Because, you know, why does he have to even do this movie? He doesn’t. There’s a lot of big actors there doing, like, one or two or three a year, like, really, really top names, but Mr. Norris has not done a movie in 12 years. So, for him to answer my call, let’s say, I mean it was, was a really big deal, and I think a lot of a lot of what I wrote really just resonated with him, and the story or the things that actually happen, or just are what they are. They put the script in front of them as he was flying back from Hawaii, and he couldn’t put it down. And, you know, at the end, he said, we have to do this movie. And they made it very clear, it’s like, we don’t leave the ranch, mostly for anybody, you know, there’s cameos they’ve done, and they go to the ranch and shoot everything at the ranch. But he flew to LA for me, which is a big deal. So yeah, and by the way, for screenplay, I’m adapting all along the way. You’re adapting along the way. And that’s one of the advantages of why I write and direct, is because I saw the location and I adapted to the script. Chuck Norris is in the movie I’m adapting and saying – Okay, I can do, he’s going to be a part of this. What else can we do? What else can we add? What does he want to do? And the same thing for Mark Singer’s character too. Mark will change things on, on the fly too.
Ashley
So, let’s talk about screenplay structure a little bit. Just what is sort of your approach to screenplay structure? There’s the Syd Field, Blake Snyder. They have a very clear sort of three acts and templates and things. There’s a more new intuitive, where you sort of just feel it through it. But what’s your approach to screenplay structure?
Derek Ting
Let me preface this by saying that I’m certainly a person school of hard knocks, and like I said, I was a B student in in high school for writing, but typically now, what my approach has been – lots of research and outline with a great idea that’s been vetted with friends first, and outline, and you explore that, and then you start writing drafts. In terms of Agent Recon. I’m not sure if you noticed that there are five acts in this. And that’s Shakespeare, essentially, right? But actually, a lot of these movies that were in the 80s, the really good ones are five acts. So, but yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes you’re typically three acts and yeah, and I’m sure every screen screenwriter has probably read Robert McKee. So, and this is my fifth movie, and when I started, I did single character, single arc, and he’s got the triangle and that’s how I started, but now I think I’m more able to do the multi character, multi arc well, and that’s what you’ll see, like my character now that you know, because it’s a trilogy too, is my character Jim Young is kind of this thread and glue. And yes, he has an arc, but then you see Mark Singer has his own arc too. He’s making decisions. In fact, in the beginning, he’s making more decisions than my character. My character is kind of long for the ride. But then the shift gears where I’m starting to make decisions and face things, you know. And then, of course, you know. And then that other guy.
Ashley
So, what about screenplay genre? Obviously, side this is sci fi action. I mean, one of the things, one of the strongest things, I think about your film, like the entire back half of the story is almost all action. There are really very little slow moments. You really keep things going nicely. So, just what’s your approach to that? Like. Just in terms of, like screenwriting, like we always hear these things, like an action film has to have an action piece, you know, every 10 pages. There’s sort of this dogmatic way of approaching these things. Maybe you can just speak to that a little bit. What’s your approach? How do you look at it? Are you ever counting page, is it just more intuitive. I mean, as I said for you, it almost seemed like you pretty much, once the story kind of got going, it was almost all action, pretty much, from then to the end. But just what’s your approach in terms of action and how you do it?
Derek Ting
I think it’s definitely those are all good, yeah, like the 11 page, you know, after 11 pages, you have to do something, or in the first and certainly, like, people send me screenplays, and if in the first, like two to three pages. I’m not, you know, if I’m not feeling it, then that’s it, you know, so and… sorry, George Orwell, is it right? The Orson Scott Wells, sorry, the filmmaker who did the thriller Rosebud, help me out here/
Ashley
Yeah. Citizen Kane, yeah, Orson Wells.
Derek Ting
Orson Wells, thank you. Want to get that right for your listeners, I typically start that way with that, like a in this case, though, it wasn’t forward in time. It’s just like sort of an inciting moment, and you have to place where that is.
Ashley
No problem at all. So no, I think that kind of answers the question. So, let’s talk a little bit about exposition. Your approach to exposition. In this particular film, you opened with some voice over. You had a lot of story to kind of get out there. This whole idea of an infection, it was turning some people, sort of into these alien zombies. Other this, your main character was infected, but it gave him superpowers as opposed things. So, there was quite a bit of sort of this exposition you had to get out. You chose to just do a voiceover. Things, typically, screenwriting 101, they tell you to avoid voiceover. So maybe you can speak to that a little bit like, what’s your approach to that? Why did you go with this things, and when do you think it’s okay to use something like exposition to just sort of get some of that nuts and bolts out of the way for the audience?
Derek Ting
You know, not to spoil it, but yeah, there, you know, to really catch people up there’s a voiceover. You know, George Lucas took the crawl. So that was out, right? I couldn’t do that. But that one came from experimentation, honestly, because I was thinking about, oh, maybe Mark Singer could do this. So, this is like, after and post, the whole prolog, like, was like, oh, we need this. And then I was thinking, like, who should really say? And, you know, the natural thing you could do is, like, ask Chuck Norris to do it, and it would be cool, right? But then it wouldn’t really add, you know, who should be really voicing this narrative is Jim. So, I did pen that afterwards. There’s in fact, you know, I honestly, there were, there were a lot of lines that I cut and like, some of the dialog is just really good. But I think, you know, when you’re working in film, it looks and reads great on paper, and it really helpful for the actor to visualize what you’re writing. But then ultimately, when you’re making the film, like, you have to be very just cutthroat about, whether this is actually, you know, slowing the story down, or is this working and effective? So, a lot of that stuff changes in the Edit, and you’re doing a lot of rewriting as well. So, it’s really an anything goes. I’ll just kind of, like making an analogy from the acting perspective, because there’s one actor, Jason Scott Jenkins, he’s a big guy, and he’s pretty talented. But he said, you know, when he was working, he’s like, oh, I’m trying to give you some options when, you know. And I said, my approach is, I just want the best one, you know, I just want the best. Obviously, okay so what is the best for me is, like, how you know, if you can deliver a performance where it feels real and believable, and that’s really what I’m watching on screen. And then, of course, appropriate, so that, as the director, I’m like – Is this appropriate for where we are, and does this, you know, in time with knowing what happened before and what happened after, like, that’s like, really, what it is, is the you’re striving for the best. You’re not striving to change it up or follow directions. You’re just trying to think how to tell the story the best and keep people engaged and keep it interesting. So, there’s this story. This is something that I’ve been talking about with I talked about with my team too, is that when we watched the movie Terminator The first one, not Terminator two, but the first one, just imagine being. Like a 15-year-old and watching that movie for the first time, it’s like, you don’t know if Schwarzenegger is a robot or who, if he’s from the future or the past, you just see this glowing ball, right? So, you know, one of the things Cameron talks about is tension, and that is so important, is so like you are just the only thing that I’m trying to do as a filmmaker and in writing is creating as much tension as possible, and much thought and curiosity throughout the entire script. And so especially in this day and age where we’re in this like 32nd 15 second mentality, of clips, it’s really hard to keep people engaged. So, even in my, you know, thinking of what a feature should be, you know, I think a lot of times, these big movies don’t make it well because they’re too long and it’s hard to keep people engaged, no matter how good you are. You know there’s, there’s going to be a time where, you know, you just get a little bit bored or a little bit lost and you want to look away. So, in my feelings, sometimes that 90-minute to 100 minute area is, is what’s appropriate for me, especially like if you’re someone to your listeners who are, if you’re just starting out, like, I wouldn’t try to write a three hour epic, don’t like, write something that’s super engaging in 90 to 100 minutes. Write 110 so that you can, like, then trim it down. But like, that’s ultimately, like the task nowadays, it’s harder. It’s so much harder to do because there’s a lot, there’s a lot out there to compete with.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. That’s sound advice. I hope people really listen to that. So, let’s talk about your writing process a little bit. Where do you typically write? Do you have a home office? Do you need the ambient noise, you go to Starbucks, you can crank out some pages there. And when do you typically write? Are you a morning person, night person, middle of the night? Just what does your writing schedule look like when you’re getting a script ready and trying to get it done?
Derek Ting
I mean, the answer is, whenever I can, you know, I will. I remember a so house, so I went, you know, I’d go there. Sometimes I just schedule one day. Sometimes it’s one day. Maybe, like, during the whole week, you’re kind of researching and thinking about it’s like, kind of in the back of your mind, processing, and then you’re spewing out and just focus for that day. Sometimes like that, and you’re edging it forward. Because, of course, as you know, I wear many hats, so I can’t just be like the writer. So, a lot of times it’s like, that is just finding a time and a space. Coffee always helps. You know, I got to say that, whenever I have a tall Starbucks, I’m like, it all comes together. It’s probably not always the best, but it does work.
Ashley
And how much time do you spend doing the research, versus how much time do you spend then outlining, and then how much time do you spend, actually, in Final Draft, cranking out script pages, just so we get a sort of a sense of your process.
Derek Ting
I’m always working. I’m always turned on in terms of, like, it’s almost kind of bad. It’s like, can’t even, like, relax, because I’ll be doing something even when I’m relaxing, I’m thinking and working. So, does that make sense? I mean, it’s just all the time, I’m thinking about … once you fix on to something, it’s very hard to let it go, and then you’re kind of on this journey to at least finish it out and solve and like, because a lot of, I mean, one of the things, I think things that people have challenges, they can start off the movie well, and they can have an idea, but how do you finish it? How do you end it that third act, or in my case, like three, four and five, that’s actually pretty hard to get to, even if you know what should happen. You know you because you’re doing a lot of set off and set up and payoffs. So, if you haven’t set up the characters well in the first half, then it’s really hard to finish the third act. So, you know, I become obsessed and so more sometimes I’m sprinting to do a draft, and then I’ll take a break and I’ll come back to it in a couple weeks. But once you’ve gotten the first draft out, then it’s definitely a time to celebrate but then, of course, you’re going to revise it like 100 times. But it is a time to celebrate because you’ve gotten really far.
Ashley
But it doesn’t sound like you do a lot, like with index cards and outlining. It sounds like you’re mulling this thing over for a while and then you’re diving into script pages.
Derek Ting
It’s more like Google. Docs or something. I like to use my technology as much as possible, but I don’t have, yeah, I think my like, I can’t even light very well anymore because the muscles are not, you know, I’ll type very fast, but, or I’ll have a big screen but I think people need that sometimes, and it looks cool when you’re doing behind the scenes as well, but it’s whatever process that works for you. I think ultimately, like your start, as I mentioned, it’s still the same thing. You’re starting from an outline, and you’re like…
Ashley
How much time do you spend developing that outline? Is that a big part of the process? And then you spend six months doing an outline in outline and then two weeks knocking out that first draft. Or is it two weeks of outlining and then two weeks of knocking out that first draft?
Derek Ting
I would like to say I’m a pretty good writer now, now I can write a script and probably, like, if you, if you ask me to, and I’ve been hired to write scripts like I could do it in three months. You know, I could write a solid script that I would get paid for in about three months. If I had to fix a script, Doctor something, it’d be a month maybe. But like I said, I was learning for six years, grinding it out and learning what all the other things. I think it’s actually important to know that there’s a lot of other things that would actually just, if you understood those areas, they would actually answer the questions that you’re asking, right? There’s like, oh, how do movies actually get produced and made? And why do they get, get Green lit? Well, you know, in the business, honestly, it is cast driven, right? So, and I wasn’t as big on that as now, as now that my craft, I think, is kind of come full circle. And I’ve developed myself in different areas, and that’s why I went out to, like, bigger, you know, bigger cast for this one. But, you know, because that’s that attracts eyeballs, like I can make, you know, I think I’ve made some solid movies that got released on prominent platforms but they don’t make as big a splash as when you have big cast, and that when you have a you know, that’s how you get to the next level. So, one of the things I talk about actually, because I think that’s really ultimately, what you’re asking is like, how do I get this? How do I get this? How do I get that? And because that’s actually really hard. And for the longest time, I thought it was just, you know, oh, if I know this person, or I know that person, or I could do this, or oh, and I could say, oh, I wish, you know, if I were rich, then it’d be easier, you know, like all these different excuses and reasons. But the truth is, like, after so much, just sweat and tears and crying and wanting to give up the next level is just because you got better.
Ashley
Let’s talk about your development process a little bit. Just when you’re writing Agent Recon? When did you get to the point where you felt it was ready to get notes? And then who do you get notes from? And how does that play into your rewriting process?
Derek Ting
So, if you look at my career like I made a movie and released it every two years, and that was on purpose, because a lot of big filmmakers could make something big and it comes out, and you heard about it, and then they don’t make another movie for like, seven or eight years. And I think that’s dangerous, because you’re just not going to improve very fast. So, Agent Revelation came out 2021. I actually wrote the follow up script to this, after that already and so and what I shot this at the beginning of 2023 yeah, like I probably wrote, I think I wrote Agent Recon mid-2022, I got to look back at my notes honestly. I don’t really know, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t a long process. It was just more. That’s why I say it’s a culmination of my track record. I really just went down to okay, what is the movie that I want to make? What are my favorites? Who am I as a filmmaker? And really understand that, but it was only because I did all these different movies, and they’re different areas, like always is a romantic drama. I did a financial thriller. I did an action movie. Now I did another visual, I did movie with more visual effects. So it’s really only understanding those, those verticals, like, okay, who am I as a filmmaker? And I realized, you know what, I’m a pretty good action writer, like not many people can write like I wrote out punches and kicks to the T of what happens in this movie. Yeah, then, of course, then my stunt coordinators took that and made them better and on the fly, if I saw ideas like adding additional choreography, of course, I added that in there. But I started from a very strong foundation of you know, writing in all the action as well, because I, you know, so you know, and then, but then I’m more simple, like, I went back to the even, like, the matrix, and I read, like, what they did there. It’s a very long read. And I would say it’s a great script, but I’m not even sure if, like, that’s the actual script. It looks really good. But then the other thing is, too, is the big studio is probably not going to, probably not reading that either, probably not reading it initially. They’re probably going in and showing all these, like flashy things, and they were talking about how they’re going to do this really cool camera thing and sort of gimmicks, right? So, I didn’t feel like, I felt like the writing was brilliant, but I didn’t feel like, if I gave this to an actor. They might not necessarily read all those pages either, because they’re busy, right? And they get scripts all the time. So, I think some simplicity, keeping it very engaging is key, however long that takes you, you know, and like, my recommend it for my process, my recommendations are, is sometimes you don’t even write the descriptions in right away. You’re just racing to, kind of, flesh out these characters and flesh out the things that happen and who they are. And then you’re going back and revisiting these characters and saying – Okay, who is this guy? What is he doing? Is he important? You know? And then, and there’s certain characters that, actually, I’m like, writing another script right now, which has nothing to do with the Agent Recon series, but it’s a new franchise that were, I’m like, you know, like, oh, this guy, he went from like, henchman number one to, like, a really important character, right? It’s like, I got to figure out who this guy is. So that’s, you know, I think of that as logical, but I don’t know I’m not. That’s why I said I’m not the person who’s like followed this structured path. And I’m curious what other writers, but you in the end, I really think it’s just whatever process works for you. And there are key things you got to do, yes, write an outline, and however long that takes you, but I think no one’s really adding up all the time, and the sweat and tears and the thought before that, before you even got to the keyboard.
Ashley
So, once you had a script done that you were happy with, you start showing it to people. What were those next steps to actually put this together, raise the money? Did you have some investors from your previous project already lined up? Maybe you can speak to that a little bit. I know there’s screenwriters out there that have a finished script that they’re very happy with, they’re proud of, and they want to kind of get it into production. Maybe you can talk about that a little bit. What were those steps, taking it from script to actually getting the money in the bank and starting to put this into pre-production?
Derek Ting
My process is different, but I think I was at the level where I could write a script and get a casting director, a casting director, Valerie McCaffrey, who I worked with. I mean, it’s an IMDB you can look, you know, you could try reaching out, but it’s not like she would just take your call anyway. You have to have a track record. She looked at all my stuff. She looked at all my work. Even my lawyer looked at my work. You know, everybody looks at your work and look at what you did, my stunt team when I first started out, when I first made the Agent, you know, they said, Oh, you made two movies and you have another script. Okay? Like, we’ll work for you, even though it’s not full, right, let’s say, and, you know, of course, then then, as you progress, then, you know, you treat your team well, but yeah, like, in my case, I focus on writing the script. If you’re a writer. I think these days, like it’s really important that you hold on to your script and make it as good as possible, and don’t wait for someone to pay you to write it, because that is like a lottery, and that just almost never happens unless … I don’t even know the instance. I’m sure there’s a story where someone did, but I don’t know anyone who’s doing that. So, you know, you just have to write a really good script. But at the same time, it’s like, why are you writing that script? And, you know, is this, who is this for? Like, a lot of people that maybe they’re writing this, the story that their life story, or a story that happened to them, and it sounds like a really good story, but to an executive, so in this movie, I had executives to answer to. They may not care, you know, and to audiences out there. It may not be wide enough or interesting enough for them to take it on. So, you know, it really was that casting director, write the best script possible, casting director, and then get the right cast for your movie, and then take it from there, work with a good producer. I’m thinking about consulting. I haven’t put it out there. I’ll put it into the ether that I think about, maybe I should consult, because I actually did get the California film and tax credit as a producer as well. I’m like, one of the few in the producers who did that. But you know, there’s tons of good producers out there that have done a lot of movies, and if you have a awesome, if you really, truly have an awesome script that I think has an audience. Then it actually could be very fast for you.
Ashley
You’ve mentioned a couple times how cast driven films like this are, so maybe you can and clearly your first step, once you had the script, was to get a casting director. So that sort of speaks to that, but maybe you can speak to that a little bit. How important is cast to a film like this? And then once you had Mark Singer and Chuck Norris attached to the film, how much easier Did that make it to actually raise money for it?
Derek Ting
Well, I mean, once I got Chuck Norris, that was it. It was already like, you know, but I mean, it took a while to figure out who was right and how would it work, and then I was pushing other things along, like, let’s at the tax credit, and shooting California and figuring out, like, how that would, you know, how and where and locations. Like you said, like, I was…so I yeah, if someone’s out, you know, if you want to write a movie, like, fine, and you and you want to make it at on any term, right, like you want to make, if you have a movie, for example, that you’re like, even if the biggest people turn it down, I could still make it with my, like, iPhone, you know, then you kind of need a location. You kind of need a place to shoot. So, if you’re just starting out, you could do that, you’d be like, okay, I want to make a movie in my living room. So, by the way, like I just did an exercise for Soho house and I was in like the top 12. I wrote that in like two hours, if we’re talking about time, wrote that in two hours. They may not want to hear that. And then I was shortlisted, and they, you know, I’m not famous as a writer or anything, but I think there was, like 400 submissions, and like, I’m in the top 3% … Sorry, just to be clear on that message. The parameters were, you know, two people walk into a bar and that’s it, you know I mean? Like, once you have those parameters, then it actually becomes a lot easier to write something.
Ashley
So, you mentioned you had worked with Chuck Norris before you brought on this casting director. Maybe you can speak to that a little bit. I get a lot of emails from people like, how do I get this actor attached to my script? And maybe you can talk us sort of through how this came about with Chuck Norris. As I said, if you had worked with him before you have this prior relationship, do you…You did not?
Derek Ting
No prior relationship. I’m just a guy like a from a middle income family, no connections. I didn’t grow up in California. I was grew up in New York, moved to Hong Kong.
Ashley
I thought you had said you had worked with Chuck Norris on a previous film.
Derek Ting
No. the script went to him through the cast director, and he just read it and got behind the film. Yeah. Did not work with him before. I wish I had connections, yeah.
Ashley
Maybe you can speak to that a little bit. What do you think it is that attracted him? Why did he get involved in this? And when you’re choosing a casting director, like is that part of the calculus as well? You look at that casting director and who she has cast in other films, knowing that she might have a relationship with some of those actors. Did that play into a why you hired her was because you knew she could get to certain actors that you thought might be right for this film. Just the logistics of how you actually get to the person that you ultimately want in your film.
Derek Ting
In the case, in the case of the Norris is, I think one thing that Mrs. Norris gave to me as feedback was that what Chuck Norris liked about the film is that, you know, he obviously at action, he’s an action guy, right? He’s an action movie guy, and his feeling was that, and they looked at my work, his feeling was that you don’t really need a lot of these other things. You just need a good story. And he felt like, you know, the movie has a lot of action in it, but actually has a good story. And I think, and obviously, I mean, there’s a strong message to it. It’s not hit you over the head, but there’s a strong message to it. And I think overall, we really can. Acted on our values and our bond has strengthened more because, because as people, I think we have a lot and a lot in common. And so sometimes I think for my project, that was the case. Now, that doesn’t mean that other movies that get made, that’s the case. Other movies that get made. Well, a lot of times, you know, it really is. It really just comes down to the money and the vehicle, you know, some actors are looking for a vehicle, and that might be an action vehicle, it might be and they’re hopping onto trends. As I’ve said this before. It’s just my opinion. But like, you know, for example, with John Wick, you know, there’s been so many different movies, action movies, with big name actors, and it’s just an action story. And it may not even be a good story, but it’s an action story. Or remember when Liam Neeson did Taken and then suddenly, like you know, if you have shaky camera, you can make an actor in his 60s look good, by the way, when you watch this movie, you will see that the action is very clear. I actually slow things down for people to see Chuck Norris in action, because that’s what the audience deserves. But it depends on what type of filmmaker you want to be, and while you’re in the business, because you know, and I know that it’s super hard, and it’s just super hard. So, if you’re not willing to, like, schlep through mud and rain and cold and of not just real weather conditions that I shot in my movie, but you know, in sort of just, you know life, then don’t get into it. Don’t bother. Do it as a hobby. Write a script and see what happens. Put it on blacklist.
Ashley
So, Derek, I appreciate all your time today. This has been fantastic. Spending an hour with me. I like to wrap up the interviews just by asking the guests if there’s anything you’ve seen recently, HBO, Hulu, Netflix, anything you’ve been watching recently that you can recommend to our mostly screenwriting audience?
Derek Ting
That I can recommend. It’s actually, it’s tough. I actually, honestly, you know, with these days, with the streaming, I actually find it hard to find things to get into that I can get excited about. I mean, I did watch Roadhouse because I was curious. I’m not sure if I can recommend that movie, honestly, I don’t know what to tell you, ladies and gentlemen.
Ashley
Yeah, no worries. How can people see Agent Recon? What’s the release schedule going to be like for that?
Derek Ting
Wait. I mean, okay, I do want to be very clear. I do watch a lot. I watch a lot. I mean, I’m based in Hong Kong too. I watch a lot of Hong Kong cinema. Actually, a lot of Asian-cinema is really good. That’s probably why squid game is so popular. But guess what? Guys like they’ve been doing that for years. You know, Hong Kong cinema, the same thing. I think there’s one with Samuel Hong right now. Actually, that’s an action movie that I hear is really good. I think I’m going to check it out. It’s like the twilight of the something, you know, someone out there just correct me and tell me what it is. But I’m actually interested in seeing that. I’m interested in seeing like Godzilla minus one. It just ended up on Netflix. I wanted to see that. But, you know, in terms of filmmakers, by the way, I think Matt Reeves is someone you want to look at. I think his name is not as big as Nolan. Obviously, Nolan is just at the top of the game, but I think Matt Reeves is somebody I’d love to work with. Christopher McQuarrie, like, he’s like, Tom Cruise’s guy, I think he’s so smart, that guy is amazing filmmaker. Not the most recent mission impossible, but the one before that was really good. It’s just everything on every level. Like, that’s probably why Dead Reckoning did do so well, is because it was good, but it just wasn’t as good as the last one. So, Chris McQuarrie is like Matt Reeves. You know, people probably, those are not household names unless you’re in the film industry. But like, those guys are just jeez.
Ashley
Yeah, those are great recommendations. How can people see Agent Recon? Now, what’s the release schedule going to be like for your film.
Derek Ting
Amazon is the main, it’ll be everywhere that you can rent or buy. We do have some theaters. We do have some theaters that we’re telling people about these days. The theatrical is very tough. It’s very tough, but I will say that the movie was I mixed for the theater, like, sound wise and music, I think it’s, you have to watch it if you can. If you’re near a theater, I’m very hopeful for an expansion. But, like, I said, like, there’s some these big ten poles that have failed at the box office, but, but, yeah, like, you know, do me a favor. Buy it on Amazon. It’ll be worth it. We’re putting out tons of behind the scenes as well. Really want interested to see my process. I have, like, the full 12 days. I only had 12 days to shoot this film, but the full 12 days, including Chuck Norris, it’ll be on my socials. And, yeah, we’ll see how it goes. We’ll see how it goes.
Ashley
So, what are your socials? Anything you’re comfortable sharing here, Instagram, Twitter, and then we can follow that. I’ll put that those links in the show notes so people can click over to it. But where are you most active on the social media?
Derek Ting
No, absolutely. I’m DKTING on Facebook, I’m Derek Ting FP, we have an agent the movie on social, on Instagram and on Facebook. It’s Agent the film. This is whatever handle was available. This is a while back. And, you know, check out Chuck Norris feed too. He’s going to put out some. There’s some funny stuff that Chuck Norris is putting out. I’m loving it.
Ashley
Perfect, perfect. Well, Derek, I really appreciate it again, coming on and spending an hour with me. This has been a great interview. And good luck with this film. Good luck with your future films as well.
Derek Ting
Thank you. Thank you. You know if there’s anything I can do, you know if you if there’s anything I do to help people out there, to help them write their screenplay, don’t get me wrong. I just want people to know how it is really super difficult having gone through it. Yeah, but if you love it, if you love it, and you got a good idea, just go and just write it in Word, if you have to, I wouldn’t recommend that. I would recommend writing in final draft and not have to correct this damn grammatical errors. But I would say, you know, go out there and write it.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So great, great advice. So, Derek, again. Thank you very much.
Derek Ting
Thank you. It was great meeting you and great chatting with you. Great questions.
Ashley
Well, thank you. We’ll talk to you later. Bye.
A quick plug for the SYS screenwriting analysis service. It’s a really economical way to get a high-quality professional evaluation on your screenplay. When you buy our three pack, you get evaluations at just $67 per script for feature films and just $55 for teleplays. All the readers have professional experience reading for studios, production companies, contests and agencies. You can read a short bio on each reader on our website, and you can pick the reader who you think is the best fit for your script. Turnaround time is usually just a few days, but rarely more than a week. The readers will evaluate your script on six key factors, Concept, Character, Structure, Marketability, Tone and Overall Craft, which includes formatting, spelling and grammar. Every script will get a grade of pass, consider or recommend, which should help you roughly understand where your script might rank if you were to submit it to a production company or agency. We can provide an analysis on features or television scripts. We also do proofreading without any analysis. We will also look at a treatment or outline and give you the same analysis on it. So, if you’re looking to vet some of your project ideas, this is a great way to do it. We will also write your logline and synopsis for you. You can add this logline and synopsis writing service to an analysis, or you can simply purchase this service as a standalone product. As a bonus, if your screenplay gets a recommend or a consider from one of our readers, you get to list the screenplay in the SYS select database, which is a database for producers to find screenplays. And a big part of our SYS select program, producers are in the database searching for material on a daily basis. So, it’s another great way to get your material in front of them.
As a further bonus, if your script gets a recommend from one of our readers, your screenplay will get included in our monthly best of newsletter. Each month, we send out a newsletter that highlights the best screenplays that have come through our script analysis service. This is monthly newsletter that goes out to our list of over 400 producers who are actively looking for material. So again, this is another great way to get your material out there. So, if you want a professional evaluation of your screenplay at a very reasonable price, check out www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/consultants. Again, that’s sellingyourscreenplay.com/consultants.
On the next episode of the podcast, I’m going to be interviewing one of the filmmakers for the film festival, but we haven’t made those selections yet, so I’m not exactly sure who that interview will be with. Anyway, that is our show. So, keep an eye out for the episode next month, it will publish the first Monday of September, which is September 2nd. And of course, if you live in LA, consider coming to the film festival again, which is October 4th through October 6th. I’ll send out an announcement once I have the website up and people can start buying tickets, but for sure, I’ll have that done by the end of August. That’s the show. Thank you for listening.