This is a transcript of SYS Podcast Episode 267: Filmmaker Melissa Miller Costanzo On Making The Indie Drama, All These Small Moments.
Ashley: Welcome to Episode #267 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Myers, screenwriter and blogger over at www.selingyourscreenplay.com . Today I’m interviewing Melissa Miller Costanzo who just did a film called All These Small Moments. She has a background working on set in the art department so she’s been in the business for years. She describes how she was able to use that experience to get into a position where she is now writing and directing a feature films. So stay tuned for that interview. If you find this episode viable please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes or leaving me a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread word about the podcast so they’re very much appreciated.
Any websites or links that I mention in the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on. You can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcast, and then just look for Episode Number #267. If you want my free guide- How to Sell a Screenplay in Five Weeks you can pick that up by going to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s completely free, you just put in your email address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay in that guide. I’ll teach you how to write a professional log line and query letter and how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material. Really it’s everything you need to know to sell your screenplay. Just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide.
So now let’s get into the main segment. Today I am interviewing filmmaker Melissa Miller Costanzo. Here is the interview.
Ashley: Welcome Melissa to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Melissa: Thanks for having me Ashley. I’m excited to be here.
Ashley: So to start out maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up and how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Melissa: Sure. I grew up in a town called Wellesley which is right outside of Boston and I was… my focus… I was a dancer for a long time actually and I think I just always grew up liking movies though and I have a very strong memory of… I don’t even know. I must’ve been in high school or something. But I went on this double date with this guy and we went to see Do The Right Thing and I just had such a visceral reaction to this movie and at the same time he kept trying to like put the moves on me [laughs]. He was like putting his arm around me and I was like, “Dude, my life is changing here, you need to give me some space.” And I just remember just like bawling my eyes out and maybe that was one of the first times that I realized how powerful movies could be.
So I always just loved movies so much growing up and in college my focus was dance though but I think I was always kind of writing and still loving movies. And then my first job out of college was… I was a receptionist at 3 Arts Entertainment, the management company. So that kinda set the stage for my love for entertainment. I kind of worked in the studio system a little bit. I was actually a development person at Julia Roberts’ company that used to be called Shoelace. Now it’s Red Om, but Shoelace is defunct now, but I worked for her and I was James Gandolfini’s personal assistant for a little while and it’s been a very sort of like cornucopia of experience. Then I interned my favorite job to this day was when I interned on a pilot called Last Laugh at Pitch’s. I think I had the best time ever because I had no responsibility and I could just hang out on the set.
And then I started PAing and I hated it because like it’s… PAing is the worst. And then I jumped into this art coordinating position in the art department and I’ve been doing that for a while until I got this opportunity to make this film.
Ashley: Okay. So let’s back up just a little bit. I know there’s a lot of people starting out that are listening to this podcast. Was the job at 3 Arts Entertainment, was that your first sort of job in the industry? And the reason I ask is maybe you can give us some tips on how to get that sort of entry level job in the business. Those are great jobs, 3 Arts Entertainment, working at Julia Roberts, those are great starter jobs for screenwriters and directors.
Melissa: Yeah. Well, you know, again I’m gonna age myself but this was like back in the day before like LinkedIn or anything. So I would literally have that book, I forget what it’s called now but it was like this directory.
Ashley: The Hollywood Creative Directory.
Melissa: Yes [laughs].
Ashley: Yeah. Ageing myself.
Melissa: And I would open it up and I… I mean, you know, again this is like ice job drowned and knocked on doors but I did kind of do that. I looked through these companies and I faxed my resume and it just so happened that they called me back and I had a good interview and I got the job. So comparing that to now I would just say, my advice would be to just look at the companies that you’re applying to and how they might relate to you and what they do and how you can go in there and say well… You know, make sure you know the company you’re interviewing for basically. Don’t just go in without knowing anything about them. So the more you know the more they’ll be impressed with you and actually think that you’re very interested in what they do.
Ashley: So at what point… you’re doing these different jobs, eventually you land in the art department. At what point did you say, “You know what, I think my real passion is writing and directing.” At what point along that journey did you start writing? And I noticed on IMDb you have a list as a producer on a number of short films. At what point did you start segwaying into producing those short films?
Melissa: Yeah, I know. I’ve also produced a bunch of features as well but I think also you do a bunch of things in your life and you cross them off and say, “Well that’s not for me.” And producing was… it was just not something I responded to [laughs], I mean, that’s a tremendous amount of work and usually very unthankful. But I think that I was always writing on the side I mean, it was always something I was doing on the side and I think that you try to get movies made and if you don’t… it’s hard if you don’t have the right people helping you along the way and you kinda come up a bunch of dead ends and it can be discouraging. So I think there’s a lot of starts and stops where you believe in the project you’ve written but it’s hard to get it to people.
And so I think that was very discouraging and I had fallen into this art department job and you know it’s a union position, I had healthcare and so I started to row with that for a while and I think the roads crossed when I was working on the TV show- The Affair. I was working on the first season. I was right next to the writers’ room, like my desk was right outside their wall so I would come up with like every excuse in the book to get into their office. I’d be like, “Oh, did you drop this pencil, No? Well he…” you know, and it just like started a relationship with these writers. And then I had the ballsy idea to approach the showrunner because I knew there would be second season and I thought well maybe I can get the writers’ assistant job and so I approached her. Again, I would say ask for things, the worst people can say is no and then you get used to that. So it’s really not that bad after a while of the no’s.
Then Sarah Treem the showrunner said, “Well, do you have any writing samples?” and I ended up sending her All These Small Moments, this script that I had written that really hadn’t gotten anywhere. It got me an interview and I met with her and the head writer Anya Epstein and they were like, “Look, your writing is too good for you to get us sandwiches. This is a really great script, are you happy with your current representation?” and I was like, “You know, they’re not really calling back.” And I was like, “What the fuck, I don’t have an agent.” Like, you know, you play it off. So they helped me get an agent and from there everything then happened very quickly.
Ashley: Perfect, perfect. No, I think that’s excellent advice and that’s a great story. So let’s dig into All These Small Moments starring Molly Ringwald. To start out maybe you can give us a quick pitch or a log line for that film. What is that film all about?
Melissa: Sure. So All These Small Moments is about a teenage boy who becomes infatuated with a woman he meets on a bus and that further complicates his already tumultuous adolescence.
Ashley: Okay. Perfect. Where did this idea actually come from?
Melissa: You know, I always tell people they have to get me drunk before I really get into it [laughs], but so much of it is… it’s really personal and I think people always say, “Which character do you relate to?” They’re all sort of these splintered versions of myself which I think as writers we’re always in all our characters. So it’s just a lot of personal stories, personal things that have happened to me. Not necessarily exactly the way you see it in the movie but the emotions of things that have happened to me. Also one of my jobs was on the Eastside and I would take the bus every morning there and I would always see the same group of kids on the bus because I think they took this city bus to school.
And I always wondered, and not like a narcissistic way, but I always wondered, “Are they obsessed with me or do they not even notice that I’m there?” So I think that idea of like coming into contact with people in kind of a similar way every day, like how does that bring people together or it doesn’t? And so that was really interesting to me. Just the repetition of it.
Ashley: Yeah. Sure. So let’s talk about your writing process a little bit. This is some rapid-fire questions. Where do you typically write? Are you someone who writes in a coffee shop? Do you have a home office? What does your writing look like?
Melissa: I’m mostly a coffee shop writer except for the coffee shop I usually work in change their seating and they’re really uncomfortable and I can’t stand it now. So I’ve been like working a little bit from home but I’ve also found… and this is a helpful hint, hotel lobbies are pretty great because they have free internet and there’s usually a lot of space and you can order a coffee. So I’ve been doing that as well.
Ashley: Was All These Small Moments, was that the feature length script you had written?
Melissa: Yeah, I had co-written some stuff with my husband but this was the first script that I had written on my own.
Ashley: Okay, perfect. And when do you typically write, are you someone who writes in the morning, you write in the middle of the night, what does your writing schedule look like every day?
Melissa: I usually like to start in the morning but I am the type of person who can kind of drop in and out and I know that’s not necessarily common. Because I’m constantly like I’m writing something new now and I’m constantly thinking about it so sometimes I only have a certain amount of time per day because the reality is I have a real job too, which I think a lot of writers and directors fall from a cloud and they mysteriously don’t have to work and I’m not one of those people so I have to find my way. I also have a six year old son and so like you really just have to find those moments and I think for me I do have the ability to drop in and out so I do it when I can. I would love to just have this like long sweeping hours of being able to write but I don’t always have that.
Ashley: Yeah, for sure. How much time do you spend preparing to write, in other words in the outline stage versus actually opening up final draft and typing dialogue and scene description and stuff?
Melissa: I’m gonna get in trouble for this because this movie was [inaudible 00:12:16] stream of consciousness and I did not outline and I just wrote. If I came upon a dead end where something wasn’t working I would just back off and go a different way. And I didn’t necessarily know my ending when I started out, where Screenwriting 101 is like “know your ending, outline…” So I didn’t do it that way but I’m really trying to do it on my next one because I have found that the dialogue to me comes easily so I think that I will be doing myself a service if I actually know where I’m going with this script because then the dialogue is for me the easy part. So that’s what… I’m trying to do it the right way this time.
Ashley: So yeah, there’s no right way, I totally get that. So what does your development process look like? You’re going through this process, especially something like that where you’re having some starts, you’re finding some dead ends going back then you have a draft maybe that you like and then what do you start to do? Do you have trusted writer friends, do you have some producer friends? Who do you send it to and what does that process look like?
Melissa: Yes, I would say it’s like your circle of people you trust. Maybe like five to seven people whose opinions you really trust and I’ll start sending it out for feedback. I never did a reading for this but I always think that those are pretty cool. So if you have the opportunity to get a bunch of actors together, even just your friends just to hear your words, have someone besides yourself. Listening to your words help a lot I think because you hear things that you don’t necessarily see right away when you’re writing on your own in a room.
Ashley: And let’s talk about some of the notes that you might have gotten on this script and how you were able to interpret this. So you’ve got these five people reading the script, giving you notes. Again, what does your process look like? Are there some people you just reject the notes out of hand, sometimes you put them on the back burner? Just talk of sort of how you interpret the notes and what you do with those notes.
Melissa: Yeah, I’ll jump at once I had a producer on board and he gave me his first round of notes because I remember that more than when I first wrote this but one of the notes I can give you the younger brother. There’s two… there’s the lead protagonist who is like the 17 year old teenage boy and then he has a younger brother and a note that I got for that was like maybe try to give the brother his own story arc. Like you know, he kinda feels like he’s been left behind. And so that was something that was really helpful to me because I went back and said, “Oh yeah, he’s right. I have the makings of this interesting character but wouldn’t it be great if he had his own sort of like sub-arc.” And so I went back and worked on something like that.
Ashley: Yeah. So you just mentioned that once you had a producer involved with the project. How did you get the script to that producer? How did that relationship develop?
Melissa: So it really was once I was able to get an agent, which I know sucks and I think the hardest parts, I hate always referring back to that. But I will say once that was in place things did move a lot more rapidly. I was able to get it to places that I probably couldn’t have gotten myself but I’d been in a position where I didn’t have any agent and I know it’s hard and I know it sucks and so I hate starting from that place, but that’s my story. So once I did have an agent they started sending it out to various producers and I would still hear a bunch of notes or we’d never hear back but we did… there was this one group of producers, Jade, Malek and [inaudible 00:15:59] their company is called Gemstone, and they really responded to the scripts.
What they told me later was, “We wanted to make a movie, we didn’t have a long window of time for development, so they were looking for something that they felt was polished enough to get made quickly once they could raise the money. So that was why they picked mine. And you know, again, it’s not… just because you have an agent, I mean, my agent handed them like six scripts of… it wasn’t just me. I’m not their priced possession obviously but when they sent this pile of scripts out to the producers and they read through them they just felt like mine was the farthest along where it did not need a long development period. They just wanted it to get going.
Ashley: Yeah. So let’s just back up just one quick question about getting your agent. I mean, it sounds like…. The first thing I think people need to realize is that you did the leg work to get that agent. You worked in the industry for many years, you did exactly what I think people would recommend. You got a job at a TV show, went it to the show runner, tried to get in as a writer. That’s the very tried and true and then you know, that’s… Talk about that process of getting an agent. Did the show runner just recommend you to his agent, was there a selection process maybe of two or three agents that were interested in you? How did you determine that this was the right agent for you?
Melissa: Well, the showrunner was a woman [laughs].
Ashley: Okay. No worry. Yeah, sorry.
Melissa: It was the type of thing where it was nice because Sarah was wrapped at one agency and Annie was wrapped in another and they were like, “Ooh, let’s see what we can get going and so they both reached out to their respective agents and Sarah’s was like, “We really like the material but we’re not signing anyone right now, we have enough… And I’d come across this as well where it’s like they already have enough clients where they don’t wanna bring on someone else who’s just gonna compete with the clients they currently have. And then Anya went to hers and that was a really nice fit for whatever reason and… What I also think is interesting is like agents usually sign people based on material that they can point at a movie and they can… usually you have to do your own leg work but they really did sign me on this screenplay because I guess they saw something there.
So yeah, I went to LA, and that’s another thing too. You don’t have to bullshit your way through it, so once I heard that they were reaching out to people I was like, “Oh, I’m coming to New York and I’m taking meetings. The second you say, “I’m taking meetings,” suddenly you’re like everyone has to have you. So you kinda have to do your own selling as well, and Joy did that and then I even remember when I was with one agency and they sat down and made me say, “We know you’re meeting with so and so.” So then really, you just have to be your own PR agent before any of this happens and just make them feel like, “Oh no, if I don’t sign them someone else is going to.” So I did a little bit of that.
Ashley: Yeah, so just for good measure, sure. One experience I’ve definitely had with agents, and when I get people emailing me, “Hey, how do I get an agent, I’ve got this script and I just want an agent to sell it.” One of the experience I’ve had, and I’d be curious, it doesn’t sound like you’ve had this experience. Agents always wanna see more than one writing sample because they want a client that’s gonna be able to produce for them for many, many years, not just necessarily one script. Did that happen? Did you have a couple of scripts by this point where you felt were pretty strong?
Melissa: No, and I think that’s again sometimes there’s just fluky things, like for whatever reason they didn’t ask to see anything else and so I guess there’s that part of the luck in it where they… I think I had a reputable person recommending me which goes obviously so far that they never questioned it. They never said, “Do you have anything else?” I think they just liked this material so much and they trusted the person who had recommended me, so I didn’t have to overcome that obstacle which of course is very common, you know.
Ashley: So then the next question I would have, and again I get a lot of emails from up and coming writers and they’re like, “I won’t to sell my script unless I’m attached as a director.” So let’s dig into that a little bit. Did you go to these agents and say, “By the way, here’s my writing sample, but I wanna be a director too,” and it was just a non-starter you wouldn’t negotiate on that point? Because my advice to people is always the opposite of that. I’m like if you attach yourself as a director it’s gonna be a stumbling block unless you have something substantial as a director that you can show people.
Melissa: So, again, it’s a tough thing because my personal experience was definitely fluky again. So when I first got down with my agents and we loved the script, well, I’m glad they said, “Do you wanna direct?” and I said, “Yes.” And that was the end of the meeting, we all high-fived and I left and I was like, “What the fuck did I just do?” So then later on because I had written… I had, maybe like a year ago, I wrote an article for Show Maker Magazine basically like how this whole thing happened and the editor filmmaker was like, “That’s really great and everything but I think people are gonna wanna know how you became the director. Like how did you get to direct?” and I was like, “Oh, that’s a good question. I don’t know.”
So I asked the producer and I said, “Oh, hey Jade [inaudible 00:21:24] when you were looking at this…” And I was like, “Why did I get to direct?” He was like, “Because your agents said that you were the director.” So that was it. It was never questioned. I mean, of course I had to talk to them, I had to tell them, you know, I had to pitch my vision of the script and all these other things but for whatever reason these particular producers either they liked the material enough or whatever it was, my directing it never… and I still don’t know why, but my directing it never was an issue. It never became a back and forth. It was just like, “She’s the director.” And I think… I think it has to do, again, it’s always these pieces that come into play in a weird sort of way.
I think these sort of producers, they had done some really great independent films but they hadn’t had agency backing yet and so the whole idea was the agency was gonna help to package and all of a sudden it became this very exciting thing for them as well because they were coming out as producers. So they were kind of like, “Oh. There’s this big agency behind it. That’s great.” And so they were getting something out of it as well. They were getting that relationship with the agency.
Ashley: I got you.
Melissa: And I was just a by-product of it in a way.
Ashley: Yeah. I noticed on IMDb too you did write and direct a short film before this one. Was that part of the package? Like did you show the producers, “Hey, I did actually direct this short film?”
Melissa: Yeah, it came up and I showed it to them. And it’s a very cute shot, it’s not like my proudest work or anything, but I think it showed them that I at least know what I’m doing. So I think it’s beneficial [inaudible 00:23:08]. I think you have to. I think if I didn’t have anything to show it probably would have been a different conversation, but since I had that they were like, “Alright, she knows what she’s doing, she can make a movie that’s cohesive, we’re not gonna be completely screwed.” So I think in that way yes, having another piece of work that I could show was beneficial.
Ashley: Yeah. And I’m curious too, I’m just throwing this out there as an idea and I’m curious to get your thoughts. The other thing is this, you did have many years of experience in the business and you would produce features and if there’s anything that a producer of a feature film, like if there’s anybody who knows what a director does it’s the producer of a feature film. So I wonder how much those credits and background and resume helped you as well.
Melissa: Oh, I mean, I think they’re huge. I think again, it would have been another conversation if I had no credits on IMDb. But even though they’re in the art department I have really big credits. And so I think it’s comforting to people who look me up and say, “Okay, she’s been in this industry a long time.” And I lead with that. Like when I talk to them for the first time of course I led with that, of course I utilized that experience to my advantage.
Ashley: Yeah, for sure. Okay, so another question I commonly get from the people that listen to the podcast is, “How do I get such and such an actor?” Certainly someone like Molly Ringwald is internationally famous, he’s been around for a long and has quite a pedigree of her own. How did you get her on board? What was that pitch like and what was that process like?
Melissa: I mean, you know, that’s the hardest part. I was like crawled up in a ball in my closet for months waiting. The casting process sucks. So again…
Ashley: Tell me why it sucks. Why does that process suck so much?
Melissa: It sucks because there’s just… there’s so much waiting and there’s so much little bites of like, “Such and such loves it.” It’s just the waiting period stinks. And we did it in a traditional way. I didn’t have a relationship with Molly, I had never met her before. I didn’t know any of the actors in my film, but we did go the traditional route with once we knew we had the financing, we hired a casting director. So that casting director has good relationships with different managers and agents and so she reached out. Again, it’s very much like the way it works. Molly read it, she liked it, I got a meeting, it just so happened that when her and I sat down for the first time it was like right when Trump had won the election, so she was like, “I’m sorry, I’m not very focused and was under this very dark cloud.”
But she was the delight and I think also she’s been in the industry so long, she’s so savvy not just about being an actress but about filmmaking and I think it could have very easily gone a different way if I didn’t know what I was talking about. But she liked what she heard when we sat down and she was kind of like the first person to sign on. From there it was kind of like… obviously that helps you get the next actor and the next actor and so on and so on. I think we might have had Brandon already. I didn’t really know him and we got… we did a lot of, especially for the kids. We had a lot of people audition and he sent in a tape and he just blew me away and so I think we actually did have him first before we went to Molly.
Ashley: I got you. Okay, so just a quick question about that meeting with Molly. What preparation did you do and maybe for all the people that are lucky enough to get those meetings with some name talent, what do you recommend for the preparation of those meetings? What is sort of the goal of those meetings and how do you get ready for them?
Melissa: I mean, for me I really firmly believe that someone’s gonna sign on because they like you. I think they have to believe that you know what you’re talking about, but I don’t think you go in and memorize all these stuff because then you’re gonna come across very robotic. I think it’s really like… I don’t even know how much we talked about the movie. It’s really just about connecting with this other human on a human level because you’re gonna be spending a lot of time with this person in the trenches and they have to know that they can be around you. so I think the advice would just be like go into it… obviously know your shit and know what you’re talking about, but also let it just be casual because you don’t wanna come across like too aggressive obviously.
I think like we just talked about stuff and we talked about life and it just so happens and again this is not gonna happen to everyone but both our sons are named Roman and then it’s so it’s just like little type of things like that that we felt like we connected on this level and on this level. I’d just seen her in a play that she had done and I recommend that as well, that if you have the opportunity to meet with an actor, go see something they just did so you can know why you want them. That’s the most important because they’re gonna say, “Well, why me?” So know why you want them and the answer can’t be, “Well, because you’re a big star.” They can have to be like…
Ashley: …yeah, you’re gonna sell my movie in Australia [laughs].
Melissa: Yeah, you have to know why you want them as an actor and what they bring to it because that’s flattering and they wanna hear that. So I think that’s important.
Ashley: Yeah. For sure, sound advice. So how can people see All These Small Moments? You know what the release schedule is gonna be like?
Melissa: Yeah, so the movie is gonna have a theatrical release that comes out January 17th. It has a limited release. I don’t know what theaters yet but you will soon, and then it will be on VOD on the 18th which is very exciting like your iTunes and whatever, you’re On Demands. And then it’s gonna have a life at Amazon Prime at some point. So it will land there, which is very exciting.
Ashley: Perfect. So what’s the best way for people to keep up with what you’re doing, Twitter, Facebook, anything you’re comfortable sharing I’ll round up for the show notes.
Melissa: Of course, I kind of vary on what social media platform I’m the most into. I would say Instagram and Twitter are the ones that I kind of frequent the most and I think my handle is the same on both, which is just @Melvmiller.
Ashley: @melvmiller, perfect. I will round that up for the show notes so people can click over to it. Well Melissa, I appreciate your taking some time out of your busy day to come and talk with me. This has been a great interview, we’ve covered a lot of stuff and I know people will get a lot of value out of this, so thank you very much.
Melissa: Alright, cool. Thanks Ashley. It’s been great.
Ashley: I just wanna talk quickly about SYS Select. It’s a service for screenwriters to help them sell their screenplays and get writing assignments. The first part of the service is the SYS Select Screenplay database. Screenwriters upload their screenplays along with a logline, synopsis and other pertinent information like budget and genre and then producers search for and hopefully find screenplays that they wanna produce. Dozens of producers are in the system looking for screenplays right now. I launched this service at the beginning of this year and we’ve already started to see some success stories. You can check out SYS podcast Episode #222 with Steve Deering. He was the first official success story to come out of the SYS Select database.
You can learn more about all of this by going to www.sellingyourscreenplayselect.com. When you join SYS Select, you get access to the screenplay database that I just mentioned along with all the other services that we’re providing to SYS Select members. Those services include the monthly newsletter that goes out to our list of 400 producers who are actively seeking writers and screenplays. Each SYS Select member can pitch one screenplay in this monthly newsletter. We also are have partnered with one of the premier paid screenwriting leads sites so I can syndicate their leads to SYS Select members. There are lots of great paid leads coming in each week from our partner. Recently, we’ve been getting five to ten high quality paid leads per week. These leads run the gamut.
There’s producers looking for a specific type of spec script to producers looking to hire a screenwriter to write up one of their ideas or properties. They’re looking for shorts, they’re looking for features, TV and web series, pilots all types of different projects. If you sign up for SYS Select you’ll get these leads emailed directly to you several times per week. Also you can get access to the SYS Select forum where we will help you with your logline and query letter and answer any screenwriting related questions that you might have. Also in the forum are all the recorded screenwriting classes that I’ve done over the years. So you’ll have access to all of those as well.
The classes cover every part of the writing process from concept to outlining to the first act, second act, the third act as well as other topics like writing short films and pitching your projects in person. Once again, if this sounds like something you would like to learn more about, please go to www.sellingyourscreenplayselect.com.
On the next episode of the podcast, I’m gonna be interviewing producer and statistician Steven Fallows. He just did a big report in conjunction with The Script Lab where they analyses around 12,000 screenplays that came through the various contests that they run. They were able to generate a number of statistics based on the reader critiques and the actual screenplays. So we talk through this mountain of data and try to find some things that are useful to screenwriters. It’s a fascinating interview and as I said, there’s a lot of things that I think ended up being very sort of intuitive and there was a number of things after looking at this data that maybe were not so intuitive. So I think this will be a very interesting interview for any screenwriter. So keep an eye out for that episode next week.
Anyway that’s the show, thank you for listening.